Contemporary Music to be tolerated, as per Pope Pius XII?
  • theCebuano_Child03
    Posts: 18
    So I found a excerpt from Mediator Dei that I found concerning and may be weaponized as a justification for modern music (e.g. praise and worship, Don Moen, and the like):

    "193. It cannot be said that modem music and singing should be entirely excluded from Catholic worship. For, if they are not profane nor unbecoming to the sacredness of the place and function, and do not spring from a desire of achieving extraordinary and unusual effects, then our churches must admit them since they can contribute in no small way to the splendor of the sacred ceremonies, can lift the mind to higher things and foster true devotion of soul.

    I thought "modem" meant something else, so I checked with the Latin to be sure, only to found out it literally says "hodiernae musices" or "music of the day" (excuse my high school Latin, feel free to correct).

    What are your thoughts on this?

  • CaleferinkCaleferink
    Posts: 445
    I don't think this is meant to give carte blanche to so-called "praise and worship" music, the folk garbage of the 1970s, etc. I think what Pius is saying here is that, so long as it fits the mold of what the Church demands by sacred music, modern-day compositions can't just be discarded by the fact that they're modern-day. Everything was new once, even Gregorian chant. We can't be afraid of new music just because it's new. Good music worthy of divine worship exists in all time periods, as does music purported to be sacred but is certainly less so. I think anyone who would try to "weaponize" this quote to justify less-than-sacred music in the liturgy of the Church would be mistaken.

    It also goes to show that the debate surrounding what is appropriate for the house of God is not a new one at all.
    Thanked by 4theCebuano_Child03 Abbysmum CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,451
    Modern and contemporary are two quite distinct things.
    Thanked by 6Abbysmum CHGiffen tomjaw CharlesW Roborgelmeister Caleferink
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,303
    Examples of the former from the middle two quarters of the 20th century:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luh-UlFvxEk

    https://youtu.be/QuYWvbOQWFo?feature=shared&t=15

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIc0_TkIaLo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaTglpHBU5A
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 58
    Modern and contemporary are two distinct things.


    This. And this again.

    There's a chasm of difference between those two. There is a lot of beautiful modern compositions out there worthy of inclusion in our repertoires.

    I don't think this is meant to give carte blanche to so-called "praise and worship" music, the folk garbage of the 1970s, etc. I think what Pius is saying here is that, so long as it fits the mold of what the Church demands by sacred music, modern-day compositions can't just be discarded by the fact that they're modern-day.


    I also think that's how it's supposed to be read.
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  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 368
    Whether or not there is a difference between "modern" and "contemporary," the Latin doesn't use either of those terms, but "hodiernae musices," which is not a reference to any particular genre or style, but to a point in time--i.e. right now. So any music being composed now would fall under "hodiernae musices." I take this to mean that the criteria for a piece of music's suitability cannot include when it was written.
    Thanked by 6CHGiffen tomjaw M. Jackson Osborn Abbysmum LauraKaz Liam
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,470
    "...therefore Music, even of the most modern kind can be included in the liturgy"
    St. John Paul II
    Letter to the artists.
    I believe he was referring to composer like his compatriots Goreki and Pendreki.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,303
    Modernus, from modo (now), has that association with hodiernus.

    "Contemporary" technically means "with/at the same time", but its usage in liturgical music is usually to denote a conscious purpose to appeal to what is currently considered to be popular taste, which is a different dimension from merely being written today, as it were.
    Thanked by 3francis MatthewRoth CHGiffen
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 513
    I think this is in reference to music such as the shmaltzy Marian devotional hymns.
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