Mendelssohn Wedding March
  • Pax
    Posts: 14
    I'm working on music for a wedding. The bride requested the Mendelssohn Wedding March. I remember that it's been typically black listed by people on this forum -- but why? Can someone please give me the appropriate reasoning to explain to the bride?
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,665
    I used to refuse but I remember hearing an argument by Dr. Richard Skirpan a number of years ago and changed my policy after it - now I don’t encourage it, but will generally yield if it’s requested by people of good will. I don’t recall his reasoning exactly, so I’ll try to summon him to this thread.
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  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 170
    There are those who would say that it is blacklisted because of its use within the incidental music for A Midsummer's Night Dream in which the subject matter of magic, fairies, and paganism is replete. There is also its association with the Newlywed Game tv show.

    I allow the Mendelssohn as there has been some scholarly research that shows the piece was originally composed as a march in C a few years earlier and then incorporated into the Midsummer Night suite as Mendelssohn needed a piece to fill a spot.
    There are no lyrics. It is just a processional march along the lines of any number of the trumpet voluntaries or other normally "approved" wedding music of instrumental nature.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 855
    so I’ll try to summon him to this thread.


    Our diocese revisited wedding music policies when the new translation of the wedding ritual came out about ten years ago now, and the only two pieces that by the time of our revision were still mentioned by name on the "black list" were the Mendelssohn and the Wagner. There was also a line about the processional and recessional needing to being "sacred instrumental" music.

    Now, what makes a piece of instrumental music sacred? Aside from an obscure Italian Baroque "sonata da chiesa" that we learn about in music history class written expressly for use in church, I can't think of any way to satisfactorily express what makes a piece of instrumental music sacred or secular other than the common association in the mind of most listeners.

    The craziest argument against Mendelssohn I have heard was that it was that it was from A Midsummer Night's Dream and promoted... interspecies marriage!

    At this point, I would venture the association most people have with it is - a wedding! - no longer does it likely even evoke the play A Midsummer Night's Dream in most listeners' minds, let alone interspecies marriage.

    So I don't encourage it, but I don't dissuade it. (And we edited the diocesan guidelines significantly.)
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,665
    Glad to see the ol’ bat signal still works..
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  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 240
    Oh no! Now I'll have to be sure I have that simplified version tucked into the back of my briefcase. I've gone 50 years since the last time I played it by simply insisting, "I don't play it." I never give any other reason.
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  • AriasitaAriasita
    Posts: 40
    I feel like the origins of the music are such a moot point. Fairies and paganism? Oh no!

    I’d rather see this become a discussion of what makes an instrumental piece of music sacred. What metric could possibly be used? I’ve seen people use historical origins as their litmus test. I’ve seen people use the morality of the composer as their guide. Both seem like useless guidelines.

    I’d love to see where people’s heads are regarding this.
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    I don’t remember which doc on sacred music I read it, but:

    “Sacred music is that which the composer intended for the liturgy.” Haa! Novel idea!

    That throws out a lot of music that everyone plays for it.

    Bach? His works are always before or after the liturgy, or for concerts or cantatas, so really not a problem with that.

    Do we get to have our own opinions and pick and choose? Yes, we all have free will… is that good? You tell me. The NO contingent can make an allowance for just about anything. Being in the VO, it is not so much an issue. I don’t ever play it. I guess I will give my opinion… it’s pop music, cheesy and shallow as comps go. I can think of 100 things that are better.

    Many times they pick it because that’s the only thing that comes to their mind. Just for the reason that it’s so commercial and stereotyped is a good enough reason to never use it.

    If you point them to better selections (many on youtube) they often will pick something else.

    When I was doing 25 weddings every summer in Wyoming, I actually had set up a webpage with suggested offerings for preludes, processional, recessional and postludes. I never had to play the cheesy defaults after couples were a bit more informed.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    Now, what makes a piece of instrumental music sacred? Aside from an obscure Italian Baroque "sonata da chiesa" that we learn about in music history class written expressly for use in church, I can't think of any way to satisfactorily express what makes a piece of instrumental music sacred or secular other than the common association in the mind of most listeners.


    I agree. I think part of it is not secular versus sacred per se, but how detached from the liturgy is the original context. Certain pieces of Handel’s work are not sacred, but they are not operatic, and they could just as easily be transferred to a grand liturgical procession. The same applies to much of the French, Germanic, and Italian baroque pieces which come to mind with even the mildest exposure to classical radio or an occasional concert. (I’m thinking in particular parts of the Royal Fireworks or Water Music, or you have the various concertos etc.)

    I love Rameau, but look, I think that it’s harder to justify even organ and horn versions of operatic pieces on classical themes (the same applies to Handel!) as lovely as it is, when you can choose so much else in a similar vein without these associations. I think that it’s less problematic to take music from such an opera or an oratorio to use it for a hymn, like with “See, the Conqu'ring Hero Comes” (as an aside, Saint Patrick’s Cathedral presently attended to by the Church of Ireland uses that tune for “Hark the Herald Angels Sing”; it’s quite something).
  • Magdalene
    Posts: 27
    This is the reasoning our diocese gives and that I pass on to the couples:

    "Per Diocesan policy, we cannot permit two specific pieces for weddings: Bridal March (“Here Comes the Bride”) by Richard Wagner; and Wedding March by Felix Mendelssohn.
    Wagner’s Bridal March comes from the opera Lohengrin, and the music does not occur within the context of a wedding. However; circumstances of the wedding include dramatic irony regarding the marriage’s imminent failure.
    Mendelssohn’s Wedding March comes from the Shakespeare’s Midsummer Night’s Dream, a fantasy centered around the main character’s use of magic to make the object of his affection fall in love with him.
    Neither piece of music reflects the sacred nature of a sacramental marriage, nor the beliefs of the couple preparing for a sacramental marriage, nor the Church’s teachings on the Sacrament of Matrimony. As a result, they are specifically unsuitable for use in a wedding liturgy."

    The couples are then given ~5 other suggestions and only one bride has made an issue of it. I think it really boils down to they don't know any better and it's all they've heard. It also doesn't help that there's no lyrics in most alternative options and they have no background in music, so they don't know how to describe what other pieces they may have heard and liked. But those two they know by name.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    Ignorance is by far the primary reason it is suggested by the couple.
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  • Magdalene
    Posts: 27
    As soon as they hear Canon in D they recognize it and want it, but how would they remember that name? Who’s getting shot out of a cannon? The title sounds strange and not in a way that it sticks.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    I always used to know it as the lightbulb commercial.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs3WWXd2d9k&pp=ygUfQ2Fub24gaW4gZCBsaWdodGJ1bGIgY29tbWVyY2lhbA==

    And then at one point I did stumble on this…

    https://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM?si=fKxvyClp072nF7aE
    Thanked by 1Pax
  • liampmcdonough
    Posts: 313
    As a similar sounding replacement you might suggest Holst's Voluntary in C from his suite of 4 voluntaries.
    https://youtu.be/3TKD0ENu_fk?si=Bpmfsr_6xeeg9I7m
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    For a processional I always recommend La Grace
    https://youtu.be/LdaJGFJi5ss?si=u2YoLQ2MFQ9fZjZ8&t=127

    ...and this is exactly the tempo that I also utilize. Works well on solo organ.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    Use this version of the Pachebel canon instead - esp if the couple or their minions have been difficult to deal with:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO3tu8YmfNY
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 47
    Use this version of the Pachebel canon instead - esp if the couple or their minions have been difficult to deal with:


    I low-key really love this version!
    Thanked by 2Liam francis
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    I gave up on banning those two pieces years ago. Most people are, sadly, so musically illiterate they don't know anything about midsummer dreams or Wagner operas. It's just music, to them. After "Eagle's Wings," I decided that since church music had gone to perdition anyway, it wasn't a hill to die on. A note on the Canon in D. The associate pastor detested that piece and I didn't use it. What caused his hatred of it was never explained.
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  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 169
    I have not played the "Bridal Chorus" or "Wedding March" in thirty years. It has been that long since a bride requested either. If asked, I would play them only after suggesting some other selections. As stated above, "It is not a hill to die upon."
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 113
    I rarely play weddings these days and don't miss them much. The Mendelssohn and Wagner are just tawdry in the context of a Catholic liturgy.

    There was that one wedding where the priest allowed the substitution of a poem by Rilke for a lectionary reading, and a layperson might also have read the Gospel.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    I always hated weddings, especially the drama that came with them. I was fortunate that a good lady organist in town loved weddings so she did them for me.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,947
    I requested, and got both, for my wedding.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    Well, for Nothing-Exceeds-Like-Excess Wagner processionals, there's also this...just not for church:

    https://youtu.be/un1V_S25wfQ?feature=shared&t=424
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    Needs a 300-pound soprano and an aging tenor to be more authentic.

    I found the Clarke Trumpet Voluntary requested more often than the Wagner. The last wedding I played for had the Hallelujah Chorus as recessional. I wasn't sure if it meant the bride was glad someone finally married her, or her dad was rejoicing at being rid of her.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    Well, the Hallelujah Chorus is "about" . . . the Harrowing of Hell, but virtually nobody seems to realize that.

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