Thoughts on the unpublished Charlotte liturgical letter
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,047
    Recently, this letter, allegedly a draft of a letter (I certainly hope it is not authentic!) intended for publication in the Diocese of Charlotte, came to light. It is shockingly restrictive of any musical and aesthetic diversity, imposing a kind of 1980’s norm of liturgical praxis. Diocese-wide.

    If it is authentic, it has not been published, and I hope it never is. Perhaps commenting on it before it is might prevent that, or it might just make them madder. Or, more likely, no one will care either way.

    Nonetheless, I compiled my thoughts in a Facebook post, which I would also like to share here for any comments people might have:

    =====================================

    I normally don’t comment on controversial current happenings in the Church. Nevertheless, I couldn’t ignore this. I offer the perspective of someone who has learned, sadly often at great pain for self and others, a certain degree humility and charity through nearly two decades working in and trying to navigate the current Catholic liturgical landscape.

    To this as-yet-unpublished letter, I will only say that it can be very tempting to minister *exclusively* to the “average” denizen of one’s Diocese / region / etc. This is the ‘Rebuilt’ model, constructing a profile of ‘Timonium [Maryland] Tim’ and designing a church around what one expects he is after. In our very mobile society, perhaps this kind of thing can work at a parochial level. But people will be missed. Not everyone is average — or maybe, no one is.

    As I once heard it attributed to Monsignor Richard Schuler about the music of the Twin Cities Catholic Chorale and the liturgical life of St Agnes, “It doesn’t need to happen everywhere, but it should happen somewhere.” Shouldn’t this be true in making full use of the riches of our patrimony?

    I know plenty of people ‘off the street’, for whom the beauty of choral singing felt more inclusive than a strictly congregational-singing diet. Why? Because they don’t know the hymns, or don’t feel comfortable with their own voice, but the beauty of the singing was accessible and enriching to everybody with ears to listen.

    Indeed, to speak to the missionary aspect, I have occasionally been tracked down after sung services by people off the street who happened to walk in to some beautiful work of perhaps Mozart, in the context of a splendid, multi sensory liturgical environment, were not Catholic, but had their heart opened in a very particular way by it.

    Letting aside (important) questions of older forms of the Missal, it is worth reflecting that the current Missal offers a wide berth in terms of ritual and musical choices, allowing a unity in diversity in the Church that can truly bring Schuler’s words to life, namely, “it can happen somewhere”.

    Do we really want to artificially restrict this broadness to one fairly narrow, arbitrary set of options on a regional level?

    I’m not going to pretend that everyone I work with in a variety of liturgical environments is an incredibly well-formed Catholic with an open mind and open heart to forms of liturgical expression that are not their preference, that they don‘t find expressive of their piety.

    Nevertheless, in my experience, rather arbitrarily depriving people of legitimate options to which they have become accustomed, through the use of bare legal force, is not a corrective to that, but rather breeds entrenchment and resentment.

    It is the desire to return nearly instantly by legal fiat to a complete uniformity of practice - trying to impose the praxis of the 1980’s as though it were still the 1950’s -, in my opinion, that is the true antiquarianism, not the desire for the old Latin Mass or any particular kind of celebration of the current Mass.

    That perspective fails to appreciate the complexity of the Church since the postconciliar liturgical reforms, the fact that different parts of those reforms were or were not accepted tranquilly by certain segments of the faithful; that there were real injuries to ecclesial communion owing in no small measure to the confusion and hurt experienced by some Catholics by the change in liturgical praxis or music; that there was also alienation among some of the faithful who had become attached to the new forms by clergy attempting to redress what they thought was excessive of the reforms.

    It is a fraught environment, and should not be navigated with a sledgehammer. Hearts are at stake. Souls are at stake.

    Navigating the complex environment of Catholic worship in the 21st-century, particularly in the always multicultural, multi expressive, and extremely diverse situation of the United States, requires a good deal of meeting people where they are, and having an open heart to the options that are available and the customs that have developed.

    It also means being willing to forgive people, to be understanding, of theit often closed-mindedness and narrowness, recognizing that very often generations of confusion and hurt are behind those sentiments, and dealing to forcefully with the situation will only re-open, rather than healing, such old wounds.

    And I truly mean that on both sides of the equation. I speak of course to those who love the older form of the Mass, but I have also experienced very faithful communities that had becomed accustomed to worship exclusively in the vernacular, with music in very different idioms, who when a well-meaning priest re-introduced Latin and chants, reacted with the sentiments of the women in the garden, “Where have they taken the Lord?”

    We eye each other was a great deal of suspicion when it comes to divine worship, probably because we have unfortunately developed a habit of continually hurting each other.

    That is ultimately what is most satisfying to me about the work that I currently do. Along time ago, I realized that there is no path forward in matters this close to the human heart that is not gentleness. At the same time, I have developed a love for and a very particular expertise in musical and liturgical expressions that run very deep in the heritage and tradition of the Western Church.

    I know that, at this historical moment, that manner of music and liturgy cannot be done immediately everywhere while respecting the law of charity, but I am very firm in the conviction that they still have a lot, a countercultural value, to offer the 21st Century, and that they “need to be done _somewhere_”.

    I am so grateful, then, to ply my trade in a “somewhere” where these practices were never lost, and so where they are received simply, gratefully, with tranquility, with love, and with great devotion.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 364
    The faithful's full, conscious, and active participation is hindered wherever Latin is employed....Full, conscious, and active participation in a liturgy that uses Latin would require each person to learn the Latin language, which is an impossible request.

    wow. Just...wow.
    The Church does not, however, call for the Latin language to be used widely in the liturgy.

    But...but...
    Sacrosanctum Concilium 54: steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.


    What's really weird about this is a bunch of the citations don't make sense. Music in Catholic Worship 51b [sic] says nothing about Latin, nor does Sacrosanctum Concilium 32. The whole thing reads light some trad nightmare of what a bishop might say, and I have a hard time believing that a bishop would really issue a letter that is so injudicious and ignorant of liturgical law. If it is authentic, I hope someone with good judgment counsels him against promulgating it.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,857
    It is almost as if it is a different religion...

    Anyway someone should send them this, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgKUI7HXZ-gMCEGRXJ8pL-iM_b7f-yG-A so they can learn to sing with the pope.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,364
    Wow, that is staggering. I'm not nearly as eloquent, so I appreciate that the more mellifluous among us will offer their commentary, as @NihilNominis has done so ably
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Abbysmum
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,047
    @fcb -- thanks for the corrective, you are right -- it is "alleged" to be what it is, and I have amended my statements to reflect that. I dearly hope it is not real.
    Thanked by 2mattebery tomjaw
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 216
    I think that letter is fake, and written (or worse, maybe AI-generated) as a bit of "working the refs." It just seems written in a way to create maximum annoyance.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,062
    If only the vernacular is allowed then we better get rid of all those Hebrew words in the Mass (Hosanna, Alleluia, Amen) since no one knows what they mean.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    And the *practical* beauty of implementing SC 54 where liturgical use of the vernacular is already widespread is that, because the people already know the Ordinary in their vernacular, they thereby know the meaning of the Latin Ordinary. Active participation does not require that one be able to diagram Latin syntax or be fluent in declensions.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,142
    "Music is to be chosen in which all the faithful can participate and pastors must diligently plan their selections in such a way that all involved in the liturgy can raise their voices in song to God (Musicam Sacram, 5)."
    This appears to me to ban any independent choral music, since all of the faithful can't sight-read from a worship aid, and they certainly can't be taught motets by rote. Oh, choruses could sing harmony to the peoples' songs. Maybe if you put the soprano (or the parts?) to something like Tallis' If ye love me into a worship aid (or on a SCREEN; that's in there too), people 'could' sing along, at least as many as ever do. But this is an attitude to sacred music that makes Jean Calvin look liberal. Bawl out those Geneva Jigs in unison.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    And it's interesting to note that Musicam Sacram was superseded in this regard by the GIRM, which makes provision for choral music in at least parts of the Ordinary, as well as the Propers.

    That said, despite a possible intention otherwise, the quote from the erstwhile letter does NOT say that ALL involved in the liturgy must be able to sing EVERYTHING.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 364
    @fcb -- thanks for the corrective, you are right -- it is "alleged" to be what it is, and I have amended my statements to reflect that. I dearly hope it is not real.

    The Pillar says it's real, but also that it is unlikely to be promulgated in this form.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    It's something of a brutta figura, but it may perhaps serve as a representative of a liturgical dial stuck in common if not the best 1990s (might someone might pick, say, 1992 as a representative point in time? At least to me it's seems in retrospect to have been a rough congealing point) parochial-level formation, a collection of the kinds of things people heard in conferences and classes and earnestly implemented with less probing than should have been the case. It's not that it is bereft of true things, it's just ... narrow and unaware of its own limitations, uninterrogated assumptions (especially), and inconsistencies. If it were going to be fisked, I suspect that task would be more fruitfully done by people who appreciate and value the conciliar liturgical reforms rather than simply as target practice for people who do not. I write that as someone who, when I was in the trenches, regularly encountered some of the ideas (esp. the ghettoizing of Latin and the everyone-must-always-sing-everything (except for the glaring omission that we never make the priest sing anything....) miasma) in the letter as if they were Gospel writ when they could not long sustain that weight.
    Thanked by 1fcb
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    The chancery and diocese have been leaky. I think that saying that it’s fake because it would spur maximum outrage is cope. It aligns perfectly with what he said as the Catholic chaplain at Duke.

    Liam, it’s stuck between 1980 and 1992, yeah, because that’s when the big, more permanent renovations (destructions) happened for the most part (Weakland didn’t finish for several years, with the Milwaukee disaster…) and then that period closes with a document that the bishop clearly didn’t understand (many such cases), the circular letter and then the CDW follow-up in 2001 on girls serving at the altar.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    This is the claim at the top of the page before the letter:

    Rorate was able to obtain the letter written by the Bishop of Charlotte, North Carolina, Michael Martin OFM Conv, who last week decreed the almost extinction of the Traditional Latin Mass in his diocese. This letter is supposed to be made public sometime in the future, and it was being kept secret (since it was written while Francis was still pope, Francis is referenced in the document -- it also leads to believe that the decision to extinguish the Traditonal Mass in the diocese was taken while Francis was still pope). We are making it known to you now.


    The letter, which is dedicated to a completely anti-liturgical and anti-traditional overhaul also of the Mass of Paul VI (the Novus Ordo Missae), is transcribed in its entirety below. The micromanagement of all aspects of the new mass in order to make it as anti-traditional as possible is quite astonishing. Some aspects of this have already been implemented at places where the bishop says mass (for instance, he forbids Communion from being distributed at the rail when he celebrates mass in churches that normally do that.)
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tandrews
    Posts: 192
    It aligns perfectly with what he said as the Catholic chaplain at Duke.


    I'm not surprised he wrote something like this. 13 years ago I auditioned for the Duke Catholic Center DM position because they would celebrate Masses in Duke Chapel (imagine the resources!!!). He wanted to go in a different direction with pianos and guitars. My jaw hit the floor reading that rejection email. Wow!
  • PLTT
    Posts: 166
    I'm not surprised that the reports say his Presbyteral Council shot it down. His own cathedral (prior to his installation), and episcopal Curia practice most of those items. I suspect he will have to wait for a couple of years before he can appoint Council members sympathetic to his views. He will also have to change a large number of Curial/diocesan personnel to align with his liturgical vision - but then, they don't grow on trees (especially positions that require specialized degrees).

    What I AM surprised about is his tendency to try and legislate his ideas. My experience has been that the religious (especially those with communal life) tend to be more flexible and accommodating of different preferences than diocesans. Quite aside from the shakey foundation of some of those proposals, legislating things doesn't change the mindset of anyone but only hardens them and secures (at best) a grudging and half-hearted compliance.

    The letter also sounds like a whole grievance list clumping substantial matters like distribution of the Precious Blood with tiny minutiae like what female lectors should not wear and Mass terminology. Does it REALLY matter if the priest says some prayers to himself while putting vestments, or if a bell is rung to indicate the beginning of the Mass? It reveals a lack of exposure to practices around the world.

    FWIW, I have SOME sympathy with a few of his positions. Some priests simply adopt a certain "traditional" aesthetic (without rubrical foundation), without proper regard for the nature of the practice or even understanding the traditional liturgy itself. But I have learned the hard-way that it is much better to convince than impose - a lesson it seems many clergy at all levels and of all theological stripes are yet to absorb.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 364
    What made me initially dubious about the authenticity of this letter was not the particular set of opinions--as Liam noted, this is a pretty standard array of conventional wisdom from the 1990s. What beggars belief is 1) that a bishop would think that he can legislate some of these things (e.g. telling priest what they can and cannot pray while putting on vestments; telling women they can't wear a veil while ministering) and, even more, 2) that a bishop would think that it is prudent to legislate some of these things. This is the sort of thing one writes in a fit of pique, just to get it out of your system, and then immediately deletes. But it makes me question his judgment and suitability as a shepherd that he would ever seriously consider trying such a scorched earth policy. I know it happens (as PLTT notes, from all ideological directions), but it still amazes me. This is failing leadership 101.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,142
    That said, despite a possible intention otherwise, the quote from the erstwhile letter does NOT say that ALL involved in the liturgy must be able to sing EVERYTHING.


    Some people can't sing ANYTHING.

    "it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is." In a legal proceeding, "Music is to be chosen in which all the faithful can participate" could be argued to mean "at least some music is to be chosen in which all the faithful can participate." But this is meaningless, since there is virtually no circumstance where a NO Mass totally excludes participation of the faithful. It is more likely that this was meant as "In music chosen, it is a fundamental requirement that all the faithful should be able to participate", and that non-participatory music is therefore excluded.

    Matt Gaspers has fisked a few of Martin's citations from SC, GIRM, and RS, and it's pretty clear that Martin wouldn't find anything from GIRM that would contradict his position.
    https://x.com/MattGaspers/status/1927916648293433667
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    I found his preference for music at all Masses offensive. Sometimes, you just don’t have time. Daily Mass is to be encouraged, per the canons; the 1983 Code is, after all, conceived as the express fruit of V2, and it is in some ways a better code than 1917. But since hardly anyone has an obligation to have the chanted Mass in choir, then having other things to do in the day is a reasonable enough justification for low Mass.

    On Sundays, this still applies unfortunately, but I take seriously those who for whatever reason are unable to tolerate music at Mass, since this is a part of our Western tradition (conversely, the overstimulation of the Eastern rites helps people who would probably not be able to handle the middle ground of the Latin high Mass).

    I also think that it’s appalling for a bishop to have no idea how much work is involved even if the parish DM (organist) is not the one playing and singing at early Masses.

    FWIW, I have SOME sympathy with a few of his positions. Some priests simply adopt a certain "traditional" aesthetic (without rubrical foundation), without proper regard for the nature of the practice or even understanding the traditional liturgy itself.


    @PLTT, I agree. Some things are either more neo-conservative practice, like cotton gloves to protect brass (just polish it and wipe the candlesticks with a cloth after Mass if needed). The Saint Michael prayer in isolation, and at all Masses, grates; I would prefer the Leonine prayers after low Masses, to include those with only hymns not celebrated as the main Mass.

    But some just seem made up or could be dealt with individually. I have had a few incidents in trad land where people participated out loud in a way that was truly disruptive, but addressing it is hard (let’s just assume that the person noticing has some authority or permission to do such a thing). You want to teach, you want to be gentle but clear, you don’t want to humiliate the person needlessly. Yet, for example, I have never heard someone say My Lord and My God out loud, not in this day and age. If they did, it was an isolated thing, and this doesn’t have to be dealt with in such a sweeping letter. The bishop would be right to say that it should be prayed interiorly. There is a decree, somewhere, from Rome (ca. 1930) explaining that it is not to be whispered by the laity or other clerics!

    @fcb indeed, but unfortunately it’s also the wrong set of tools to try to use with people who aren’t students (even then, I’d be dubious), and even good teachers can be condescending with people outside of school. It becomes a hard-wired part of their personality. I think that Catholic education is important, and there should be clerical involvement if not hands-on administrative and teaching work. But you have to be, well, more pastoral than this even as a teacher or administrator, and certainly if you are called to the episcopacy (as the pope reminds us, not by any act or merit of ours…we hope)
    Thanked by 3Liam tomjaw CHGiffen
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,062
    Quite aside from the shaky foundation of some of those proposals, legislating things doesn't change the mindset of anyone but only hardens them and secures (at best) a grudging and half-hearted compliance.

    If only the powers that be realized this 50 years ago. Since most people seemed to go along, they still believe this is the go-to m.o. In fact, some bishops seem to know no other way of getting things they want done, even though it often (and predictably) leads to the polar opposite of what they say they want. For all their talk of openness and dialogue it makes you think they would rather have no church at all than one that doesn't conform to their ideas.

    Does it REALLY matter if the priest says some prayers to himself while putting vestments, or if a bell is rung to indicate the beginning of the Mass?

    It does matter if your principle is that the new liturgy is a definite break with what went before. So everything that reminds anyone that there was a different liturgy in the past - one that embodies things unacceptable now - must be eradicated.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    The irony of that letter is that he said out loud, seemingly thinking that it’s the right thing to say, things that trads are told not to say, not just out of prudence, but because a segment of the church earnestly believes that it isn’t the case.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Abbysmum
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 285
    The part on Latin was interesting. First, it ignores Sacrosanctum Concilium. That document presumes the norm in the Latin Rite will be Latin and the vernacular will be the exception. It also ignores the portions of the document which extol Gregorian chant. Second, the bishop’s low opinion of the intellectual capacities of his flock is astonishing. Does he really believe that his flock cannot grasp the meaning of the Agnus Dei or the Sanctus? If I was one of his Hispanic flock, I would be doubly outraged. Given that Spanish is actually closer to English, it would be easier to learn the Latin responses rather than English. And is the bishop actually saying that his Hispanic flock is too stupid to learn simple responses in three languages?
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 47
    And the *practical* beauty of implementing SC 54 where liturgical use of the vernacular is already widespread is that, because the people already know the Ordinary in their vernacular, they thereby know the meaning of the Latin Ordinary. Active participation does not require that one be able to diagram Latin syntax or be fluent in declensions.


    Oh man, this. I tried to explain this to someone who complained we did Latin ordinaries for Advent. "However are we supposed to know what we were singing?" Like, have you not been paying attention to what you were singing in English?

    Once you have a base vocabulary of about a hundred words in Latin, you can parse out what a significant amount of music is saying because the same terms are repeated often. You might not know 100% what an unfamiliar piece says, but you can probably get the gist of it.

    Also, that letter is... aggressive.
  • Doesnt look good. I have a friend who is a religious down there, and she said that the seminarians are dropping like flies..... out of a seminary that just a few years ago was bursting at the seams.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,001
    My bishop has done something similar (but not nearly so drastic) in this diocese. Seminarians have been going down year by year as long as he's here.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    A good friend posted this on the matter.

    Martin's view of liturgy is profoundly positivist: if a practice is not specifically mandated in the post-Conciliar legislation, it is de facto forbidden. Of course, this is an extremely erroneous, backwards, and downright stupid way to view Catholic tradition. The great canonist Gratian (c. 1150) says in the Decretals, "Custom is that certain law established by usages in observance for a long time, which is accepted as law where there is no law" (c. 5, D. I). This later became part of the 1917 Code in Canon 29, "Custom is the best interpreter of the law" (consuetudo est optima legum interpres) and was retained verbatim in Canon 27 of the 1983 Code. Now I am no canonist and I am not making a strict canonical argument; I mean only to say that "If not permitted, then forbidden" is a thoroughly un-Catholic way to look at pious customs. The Catholic mindset is the opposite—if there is no legislation to the contrary, tradition is presumed to enjoy continuity.

    Martin's hermemeutic also shows that Trads are not exaggerating when we say that progressives act like the Church started in 1965: Martin literally asserts that every custom must be mandated in a post-Conciliar document to have any validity. For Martin, Vatican II truly is a terminus quo ante before which nothing else matters, and a zero point from which every licit Catholic practice must proceed. For all intents and purposes, the Church started in 1965.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    It’s also easy to not have contempt for the people. I would not be a good bishop in one key way (which I won’t reveal but it is apparently something that the nuncios are asked to focus on among character flaws, oops, the effects of grace aside) but I understand that certain qualities are needed that make getting any positive change quite slow to come by.

    The letter on the TLM and the draft on the NO practice showed a lot less dialogue and a lot more quick judgement. Somethings are not even trad, and a quick memo reminding the priests and explaining this gently could be issued. (Honestly bishops who cultivate a relationship with the FSSP and ICRSP would learn a lot.) For example, saying that servers shouldn’t wear cotton gloves at Mass is trad is wrong. It is a not-trad conservative practice. Because only bishops wear gloves, servers shouldn’t, and the sacristan should polish more often; otherwise, you need to wipe down candlesticks after they are used. There is no real need for gloves. But you explain that as the father and head of the church. He acts like the worst teacher or administrator that I’ve ever had with his scolding.

    I know some bishops who don’t seem to like using paternal language with priests but who are very good at this with the faithful. I don’t see where Vatican II called for bishops insisting that they are still brother priests of the diocesan clergy. This is part of the problem: he acts like they are equals except in a way that is unconvincing (in part because the concept of chief liturgist or whatever we call it in a diocese is nonsense; the chapter would have exercised enormous influence!) and is mean about it.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,282
    And cathedral chapters in USA Catholicism have been a pale echo of what they once were (and sometimes still are in certain places) elsewhere. Perhaps partly because of the long-time mission status of the Church in the USA being under the Propaganda and/or a reaction to trusteeism?
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Many cathedrals are located in city centers that aren't currently safe, so another church becomes the quasi-cathedral.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Abbysmum
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,798
    The U.S. never even had chapters so perhaps this is why we lean into the chief liturgist thing.

    I mean that’s true but that’s all the more reason to not give up.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 501
    At the end of the day, it references being in communion with Pope Francis. Pope Francis is not the Pope anymore and our new Pope has both shown through example and spoken about the need to make Mass a transcendent experience.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,142
    I don't think I've ever seen such revulsion to an American bishop's actions as in this case...and we have some pretty revolting bishops. I'm wondering if some of it actually goes beyond what is proper.
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth Chrism
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,857
    Well the wind is changing, in the past the majority would have gone along with it, a large minority would leave. It would all be considered a good thing because Vatican II, The Holy Ghost, and progress...

    We now have a large number of people perhaps a majority that want the meat, not the gruel, or they want the salt that has not lost its savour. Faithless bishops are now going to be called out in many places, in other places they are irrelevant.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    You know, bishops come and bishops go. As they say, blessed be the name of the Lord. With some, it doesn't hurt to pray that they go sooner rather than later.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    I don’t ever pray for a bishop or pope to be removed (or pass)… only for the conversion of their soul (which will drastically change their mind)

    conversion of soul will change the entire being.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    We can pray that they be stationed where they, and we, will be happier. Or perhaps they be promoted elsewhere. Some of them are too rotten to ever convert or change.
  • I think it is sort of prophetic that in the past century to present there has been many feminine mystics, foundresses of communities, victim souls, groups, etc towards spiritual maternity for priests.... this all began before everything started taking place.

    It shows how the HS does indeed enlighten souls to know where the attack will be in the future. If there is one thing the devil hates, its the priesthood... in the words of one holy priest, "Pray for priests.... do you think its the little old lady in the pew that the devil is out to get? No... its the priest." (although I would say the devil might be just as afraid of such little old ladies.....

    Point being, this is not just a liturgy war... its spiritual warfare against our shepherds. So I feel, a spiritual response is necessary.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    Those LOLs (little old ladies) are wielding a heavy duty arsenal against the enemy… the most powerful next to the Mass… you can bet he don’t like them either. And yes, the monastics are also on the front line.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,018
    As I told one of my best friends when he was ordained, "you know you now have a bullseye on your back." He realized it.
    Thanked by 1monasteryliturgist
  • francis
    Posts: 11,052
    1 Son, when thou comest to the service of God, stand in justice and in fear, and prepare thy soul for temptation. 2 Humble thy heart, and endure: incline thy ear, and receive the words of understanding: and make not haste in the time of clouds. 3 Wait on God with patience: join thyself to God, and endure, that thy life may be increased in the latter end. 4 Take all that shall be brought upon thee: and in thy sorrow endure, and in thy humiliation keep patience. 5 For gold and silver are tried in the fire, but acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

    6 Believe God, and he will recover thee: and direct thy way, and trust in him. Keep his fear, and grow old therein. 7 Ye that fear the Lord, wait for his mercy: and go not aside from him, lest ye fall. 8 Ye that fear the Lord, believe him: and your reward shall not be made void. 9 Ye that fear the Lord, hope in him: and mercy shall come to you for your delight. 10 Ye that fear the Lord, love him, and your hearts shall be enlightened.


    aint gonna be a piece'o cake! plan many meals of humble pie until He comes! (to your doorstep)
    Thanked by 1monasteryliturgist