Please tell me about your funeral choirs
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    Hey,

    Please tell me about how your funeral choir runs. Ours is in dire need of revamp, and I need some ideas and direction as to how other parishes do this.

    Thanks!
  • davido
    Posts: 1,069
    5.5 years ago upon starting my current job, I had an Arimathean choir that met for rehearsal once per month and was also going to sing at nursing home masses once per month in addition to funerals. Covid hit, no choirs were allowed, half members died, and when Covid ended, I realized I had enough to do. There wasn’t the strength for part music, no one had cantor talent, and they could sing the music just as well from the pews.
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  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    Thanks davido. I had to look up what Arimathean was!

    The issue is, at least in part, is that often the funerals are full of non-practicing and/or non-Catholics who know none of the music. So I don't know if I could rely on them singing from the pews.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 725
    As DM, I just cantor and play them myself. As with weddings, I'd use a quartet recruited from among the ranks of my choir if anything more involved were requested, but that has yet to happen. The requiem ordinaries and propers are sung, and there are optional slots for hymns at the offertory and communion. Basically the only choice folks get are those two hymn slots (hymns have to come from the 1940, which is our parish hymnal) and the language of the propers/ordinaries.

    All that to say, it's fairly straightforward to sing and play them myself, so we do not have a specific funeral ensemble on deck. We're a small parish though so YMMV.
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  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    @trentonjconn Are you EF or OF? I wonder if that makes a difference?
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 725
    We're an ordinariate parish which, when it comes to planning funerals, tends to be more EF than OF. I previously worked in the OF world for years and funerals tended to be just about the least musically rewarding aspect of the job, unfortunately. That said, and to bring us back on topic, my experience has been that the organist and cantor configuration (or one person doing both) is ubiquitous for funerals. Whether or not this is a good thing is another question though, certainly.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,069
    It’s ubiquitous because funerals are during the work day, and usually on short notice. Also few people can shell out the money for a paid choir and most don’t know or value choral music enough to spend on it.
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  • davido
    Posts: 1,069
    I’ve heard tales of parochial school choirs singing for funerals in the olden days. I’m guessing it was mostly psalm toned propers and their two best unison motets.
    Educational standards were different back then. Can’t imagine getting a whole choir excused regularly for funerals these days.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,290
    Yes, parochial school choirs did sing for funerals. It was simple music.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,115
    "I’ve heard tales of parochial school choirs singing for funerals in the olden days. I’m guessing it was mostly psalm toned propers and their two best unison motets."

    i was part of a parochial school choir formed to sing funeral Masses (appx 1959).
    Sung Mass, full propers incl sequence, but i don't remember any motets being used, for whatever reason. Maybe the Dominicans who taught us to sing the Mass didn't know any
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  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 170
    A volunteer choir consisting of adult choir members and as necessary a few recruits is always an option presented to families in our parish. We usually sing two or three hymns and a very short motet. This tradition in the parish goes back sixty or seventy years. It works very well, in my opinion.
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  • Magdalene
    Posts: 27
    Up until about a month ago I did all the funerals by myself. Then a friend of a choir member passed and she asked to sing alto with me at the funeral. Sounded amazing! Our priest liked it and said it reminded him of his home parish having a funeral choir. So I just put out the feelers and my core choir members (all retired) were interested. The plan is that they have the list of recommended songs, and I'm going to send them practice tracks to have on hand. When a funeral comes up they'll get the list of songs chosen, they come if they can make it, and they will have learned the parts on their own at home. Now of course there's a lull in funerals so we have yet to test it, but we'll see how it goes.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,214
    We sing the propers and the Ordinary in Latin. Nothing else. Some love it. Some hate it. I do not care. Its what we do.
  • btodorovich87
    Posts: 107
    I started a funeral choir about 8 years ago because I was sick of having just organ and cantor. I'm fortunate to have a number of GOOD singers who are past either retirement-age or who work flexible hours! After COVID the group evolved a bit... now we rehearse every Friday mid-day and sing not only for funerals but also for major feasts and special occasions.

    For motets we pull from the following simple repertoire:
    Requiem aeternam (Martini)
    Lux aeterna (Casciolini)
    In paradisum (Bernard Sexton)
    Ave Maria (Schubert)
    Nunc dimittis (Dyson)
    Panis angelicus (Franck)
    Justorum animae (Mead)
    Lead Kindly Light (Purday)
    O Rest in the Lord (Mendelssohn)
    Pie Jesu (Faure)
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  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    I started a funeral choir about 8 years ago because I was sick of having just organ and cantor. I'm fortunate to have a number of GOOD singers who are past either retirement-age or who work flexible hours!


    Yeah, it's the need to have flexible work schedules or be retired where I'm getting stuck, because it's a real motley crew. Some can sing, and hardly any read music. They don't practice - they just show up (I never know how many will come). It verges on embarrassing if the family of the deceased isn't well-known to the parish (which is often the case - an OF parish and the children are usually non-practicing).

    For motets we pull from the following simple repertoire:
    Requiem aeternam (Martini)
    Lux aeterna (Casciolini)
    In paradisum (Bernard Sexton)
    Ave Maria (Schubert)
    Nunc dimittis (Dyson)
    Panis angelicus (Franck)
    Justorum animae (Mead)
    Lead Kindly Light (Purday)
    O Rest in the Lord (Mendelssohn)
    Pie Jesu (Faure)


    I could only dream of having a list like that! Everyone wants "On Eagle's Wings" and "Here I am, Lord".

    The plan is that they have the list of recommended songs, and I'm going to send them practice tracks to have on hand. When a funeral comes up they'll get the list of songs chosen, they come if they can make it, and they will have learned the parts on their own at home. Now of course there's a lull in funerals so we have yet to test it, but we'll see how it goes.


    Please report back and let us know how that works!

    I’ve heard tales of parochial school choirs singing for funerals in the olden days. I’m guessing it was mostly psalm toned propers and their two best unison motets.
    Educational standards were different back then. Can’t imagine getting a whole choir excused regularly for funerals these days.


    Yeah, we pull kids from class to altar serve, but there's no liturgical choir at our school, unfortunately. That would simplify things for me if there were!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • btodorovich87
    Posts: 107
    I could only dream of having a list like that! Everyone wants "On Eagle's Wings" and "Here I am, Lord".


    We have a list of approved hymns from which the families can choose 2, then they ca write down any alternate requests if they like. Sometimes there's space for other hymns, sometimes not... ;^)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Abbysmum
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    We have a list of approved hymns from which the families can choose 2, then they ca write down any alternate requests if they like. Sometimes there's space for other hymns, sometimes not... ;^)


    Out of curiosity, what hymns do you commonly have (or have not) time for?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,214
    No hymns at the Requiem Mass.
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  • rvisser
    Posts: 63
    @abbysmum - My Grade 3-4 schola (24 kids) sang for two funerals this school year (by request of the families, who heard them sing for Mass on All Saints Day). I will be using students for future funerals (we don't have them too often). If the middle school boys can skip class to altar serve (and get paid for it) I see no reason why students can't sing. Thankfully, the teachers, principal, and pastor all agree.
    Thanked by 2Abbysmum CHGiffen
  • btodorovich87
    Posts: 107
    Out of curiosity, what hymns do you commonly have (or have not) time for?


    We have time for "I Know That My Redeemer Lives, et al. We don't have time for "Let there be Peace on Earth," et al.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,115
    for us it's more a matter of do we have the right voices present... but we would have time for "O Jesu Christe" (Jacquet)
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,859
    While we have a parish DOM, he is only employed for Sunday morning plus rehearsal...

    So the parish secretary / Parish priest, finds out what is needed. Usually an organist is hired in with a professional singer in the parish employed to sing.

    If it is TLM, I get an e-mail asking for a choir to be found, I can guarantee chant, and if they are lucky they may be able to have the Victoria 4 part Requiem. No Hymns of course... My volunteers usually end up being given a pile of cash at some stage.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,820
    Funerals are announced and then they’re usually chanted unless we get a note otherwise (but they’re supposed to be sung Masses except in grave/exceptional circumstances…) so we scrounge some people together once we know the date and time. Depending on how things go, if the burial is at the local (Catholic) cemetery, I will push to also sing the rite at the grave. Reciting it is a bit lame if we have the people.
    Thanked by 2Abbysmum tomjaw
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    Depending on how things go, if the burial is at the local (Catholic) cemetery, I will push to also sing the rite at the grave. Reciting it is a bit lame if we have the people.


    Can you talk more about this?
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,820
    The rite in the Rituale Romanum is meant to be sung as a procession. It is normally merely recited at the grave but between myself and anyone willing to come it can be sung. If the burial is delayed the chants are never omitted. You sing them before loading the body in the hearse after one last aspersion.

    The new gradual also has chants to sing at the grave although I couldn’t tell you what they are off of the top of my head.
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  • Magdalene
    Posts: 27
    Coming back to report we've done 3 funerals with the choir just "showing up" and they went smoothly. Just trying to streamline the process on my end for sending out the music selections etc.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,048
    If it’s during a weekday workday, I don’t charge a penny for my services to play a funeral at my own parish. I encourage people to use that savings and hire my singers. Most do.

    I put out an Email to my staff singers and a few friends around town indicating the desired forces, and those available reply. First come, first served.

    I have a pretty thorough planning document that operates on the principle that funeral Masses are also parish liturgies, and that, questions of fittingness aside, this helps make sure everything goes smoothly, since the flow for all those involved in making the liturgy happen is what we are used to. If necessary, I explained that lead time on these things is pretty short, that what we do is extremely beautiful, and that this really is the best way to make sure that their loved one has a beautiful, prayerful, dignified funeral.

    Usually, articulated that way, I have a good response, even from people who opened with requests we can’t accommodate.

    Also, once you articulate to people that we are happy to have them involved in the process if that is meaningful to them, but that they do not need to worry about cleaning their loved ones funeral… that, if they literally never called back, their loved one would have a beautiful and dignified funeral, because that’s what we do, it takes so much pressure off of people in very difficult situations, and they are usually super grateful to hear it.

    They usually stay involved, which is good (my goal is not actually to get them to stop being involved, because I find a certain amount of input helps me know that I’m on the right track in helping this family to grieve), but it changes the whole tenor from a mourning relative stressfully trying to plan an entire funeral from the ground up without knowing the rules or ins and outs, to calmly indicating the two or three things that are truly deeply meaningful to them.

    But, that being said, within those parameters, we try to be as accommodating as possible. For example, had a very tragic TLM funeral for a young girl come up. Family really wanted a violinist from the parish to play — not kosher during the Requiem Mass itself, of course. So you’d better believe we had her play a prelude right up to start time.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,820
    We also haven’t had a person die in the parish in 5 years (the people who died moved away in their final years) so this is all a bit new for me, but the approach of we will have a high Mass barring some exceptional circumstances is mine too. Chant only unless I can start scrounging up either musicians for SATB or TTBB. No one minds either way.

    The other thing is that I’m willing to do the office of the dead (Matins plus Lauds, or at least the invitatory plus one nocturn and Lauds or Lauds is what the church requests), recto tono with some of the guys, following the Si iniquitates etc., which is followed by the Subvenite, then we will have the Requiem Mass and everything that follows. In certain circumstances we’ll sing the whole office, with the chant, and I’m willing to go to the wake to do Vespers for those who ask.
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  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 50
    We also haven’t had a person die in the parish in 5 years (the people who died moved away in their final years)


    Wow! That's surprising and the opposite of what we see so often these days - the number of funerals far exceeds the number of weddings, by something like 7 funerals to 1 wedding. How many weddings to do you guys do a year?

    But, that being said, within those parameters, we try to be as accommodating as possible.


    This is my philosophy too. I always try to say yes unless there's a reason I have to say no.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,820
    TBD. We have mostly been able to offload weddings (and there was a stretch where people weren’t getting married…). Right now we will have 7 weddings for this year if nothing changes between now and the end of the month (six months is required for weddings). A few more inquiries have been redirected elsewhere.

    We used to have way more. I suspect that we will have some weddings without music. But I don’t know how many people will be interested since it will not be a free for all.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,115
    If it’s during a weekday workday, I don’t charge a penny for my services to play a funeral at my own parish. I encourage people to use that savings and hire my singers. Most do.

    :-) how very kind of you!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • liampmcdonough
    Posts: 316
    We offer a sung requiem with organ and cantor, 2 cantors, or choir. 2 cantors in Latin, full Gregorian with organ is presented as the standard option, for $500. If this is the desired option, the celebrant asks for my availability (organist), I confirm the other cantor, and these dates are presented as the options to the family. There are no musical options given to the family other than number of cantors and Latin vs English. Special requests are conveyed to me by the pastor if there are any; usually there aren't
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