Child baptism during Mass
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    Hi All,

    Next Sunday we'll have a baptism at Mass. The priest today said he would divide it into two parts - the actual baptism after the homily and the receiving of the candle (and I guess, the white garment - he didn't mention this), after Holy Communion.

    I'm not sure if I've ever seen it done this way. Any advice? Is this common?

    Thanks in advance!

  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    No
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 226
    There were a small number of baptisms at the NO mass I played at, but this is many years ago. I was fortunate in that this priest always followed the rubrics. There was a ritual during the Entrance Rite, and after the Homily, the rest of the Baptismal Rite. There was also a special form of the Solemn Blessing. While it certainly should be possible to find the official rite, experience has taught me that if the priest has already made up his mind as to what he will do, right or wrong, I just say, yes Father, just be sure I know what's expected of me AND WHEN.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor Abbysmum
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,357
    I agree with Rob here. If the priest already has planned the way he intends to do it, then simply ask him what exactly he wants you to do and when exactly he wants you to do it.
    Thanked by 3Roborgelmeister Abbysmum PaxMelodious
  • Noctcaelador
    Posts: 7
    I've often seen it done like that in the Presbyterian Church, where people seem to quite like being involved in baptisms, and the preacher usually says something to the effect of the whole community being responsible for the child's Christian upbringing.
    Your mileage may vary. I'm not Presbyterian.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    Thanks everyone, I feel much betternow having read your comments. Sometimes I literally feel crazy when the priests either a) have no clue what I'm talking about when I ask if they are going to do such and such at Mass, or b) do something I have never, ever seen before (no incensing of the Blessed Sacrament at the altar of repose, just a fast exit).

    Then I try to find rubrics for those things, (just for my own information), and at times there is a lack of -free- documents available, e.g. The Order of Christian Funerals, The Rite of Baptism for Children.

    If anybody knows where I can obtain these two documents as a pdf, please let me know. I have fragments of both, but not either document in its entirety.

    Thank you, all, have a great day.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,257
    Note re editions:

    The Order of Baptism for Children is currently in its second typical edition approved in 2019 that went into effect in the USA on 6 January 2020.

    The Order of Christian Funerals did not receive an entirely new typical edition in 2019, but was revised to incorporate and harmonize with the 2011 Missal and to include a revised Appendix regarding funeral Masses where cremated remains are present.
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 226
    This document appears to cover The Baptism of Children.
    https://www.archmil.org/ArchMil/Resources/OFW/OFW-Resources/SummaryTheOrderofBaptismofChildren.pdf
    Thanked by 1Abbysmum
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 356
    A priest who can't read rubrics is like a lawyer who doesn't know how to read a statute.This is not rocket science.
    Thanked by 6Roborgelmeister kevinf trentonjconn CHGiffen GerardH Abbysmum
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,530
    This is not an endorsement of bending the rules, but -
    the "three sacraments of initiation are baptism, confirmation, and eucharist"
    which we in the west have separated for infants but in the east are all administered together. It is possibly a desire to link reception of communion to the baptism which prompts this priest to delay presentation of the candle to this part of the Mass.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen fcb
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    fcb, I agree, and I don't understand why it happens, but I pray daily for all priests.

    Liam, Robo, thank you very much for the info and the links. I found The Order of Christian Funerals in our sacristy, 1990 edition with Appendix for Cremated Remains. The Order of Baptism for Children is not there. But I am very happy to have the links.

    A_f, very interesting theory. I like it! (Trying to maintain a positive attitude lol)

    Take care, all.

  • francis
    Posts: 10,997
    Another No
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 356
    It is possibly a desire to link reception of communion to the baptism which prompts this priest to delay presentation of the candle to this part of the Mass.

    A charitable interpretation of this choice. I think a better way to make this point would be to use at the Mass the formula that introduces the Our Father in the Order of Baptism:
    Dearly beloved, these children have been reborn in baptism.
    They are now called the children of God, for so indeed they are.
    In confirmation they will receive the fullness of God’s Spirit.
    In holy communion they will share the banquet of Christ’s sacrifice,
    calling God their Father in the midst of the Church.
    In the name of these children, in the Spirit of our common sonship,
    let us pray together in the words our Lord has given us:

    Of course, the Missal not longer has a rubric about using "these or similar words" at this point in the Mass, so I'd suggest the priest ask the Ordinary's permission.

    A side note: this post sent me looking through my Order of Baptism of Children, which smells like chrism from my oily fingers staining its pages, which reminds me of how much I love that smell--to adapt the words of Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore from Apocalypse Now: I love the smell of chrism in the morning... It smells like victory.
    Thanked by 4Liam a_f_hawkins Marc Cerisier CHGiffen
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 450
    Yes, it's common in some parts of the world.

    IMHO it's better than having the family troop into the church after Mass is over - being very clear that they aren't attending Mass today!!!

    If it's inside the Mass, then family members will likely attend 3 times this year (C, E & B).
  • AriasitaAriasita
    Posts: 38
    Advise? Go with it.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    fcb, hilarious! Good adaptation!

    I was received into the Church in 2001, and kept the dress I wore that night (Easter Vigil) in my closet, unwashed, unworn, for about three years. It smelled delicious.

    I've been trying to replicate the smell ever since, and have come pretty close with my version of olive oil mixed with frankincense essential oil and a drop of cinnamon essential oil. I think it probably lacks a bit of clove, but not sure what else.

    Ariasita, yes. I have to go with it, and I'll report back with the details if anyone's interested. The priest is from a South American country, and I am thinking that his separation of the baptism into two parts might be common in his country.

    Thanks everyone!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    Hi all,

    Happy Mothers Day to all moms!! Hope you are enjoying your day!

    I am reporting back about the "split up" baptism today during Mass -- part after the homily, part after Communion. It was actually quite beautiful and felt total natural. It was bilingual, and Father read everything in both languages, aside from when he was speaking Spanish directly to the parents and godparents.

    He wanted no chanting or other music, which was great for me! I got to just enjoy the baptism and the crying toddler - something our parish has not heard for a long time, unfortunately... But God is good!

    Father announced what he was going to do for each step of the rite, which I liked. It didn't feel unusual or MC-ish in any way at all. (Maybe because I've never seen a baptism in the old rite.) (I'm sure I would be enthralled by that, and probably would never want to see a NO baptism again LOL.)

    Could anybody instruct, please, on the EF rite of baptism? Is it done during Mass, and are there specific chants? If so, are the chants sung while the priest is performing the rite, or can his words be heard?

    Thanks everyone, enjoy your day!

    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    The part about the TLM and for that matter the oriental rites that the new Mass gets terribly wrong is that aside from ordination, all sacraments other than the Eucharist are before or outside of Mass. (In the East, baptism takes place very early in the eucharistic liturgy.)

    No chants. All recited clearly. All but some of the exorcisms and the baptism itself may be in the vernacular according to the provisions of the ritual for the country where you are baptizing.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 36
    Thank you, Matthew, very interesting. Were there rites of confirmation and baptism of catechumens during the Easter Vigil Mass?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    During the vigil which is before the Mass of the vigil. The exact order is hacked to death in the 1955 reform but previously: fire, Exultet and candle blessing/lighting, twelve prophecies with four tracts, blessing of font if present, baptisms and confirmations if anyone is baptized (confirmations alone are not to be done even in the NO, if you read between the lines), then the Litany, and finally the Mass.

    The same on the vigil of Pentecost minus some of the readings.
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