Do we need a DOM in a large, musically-diverse parish?
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    Hello everyone! I've lurked here for some time, but this is my first post because I wanted to ask a question. If there's a previous discussion on this and I just haven't found it yet, please point me there!

    I've been looking at our parish's music program and wondering if we need a DOM. But I'm having a hard time conceptualizing what that would look like in our parish. I'm hoping those with more experience can give me some ideas.

    For context, we are a large-ish NO parish of about 900 or so families, with 4 weekend Masses. We have 2 priests, but they also serve one nearby church every week, and sometimes supply for other nearby parishes. We are, by far, the largest parish in the western deaneries in our geographically large archdiocese.

    I am currently accompanying 2 Masses every weekend. For the 9 a.m., I work collaboratively with a cantor to put together music every week, while with the other (11 a.m.) I am just the accompanist to an SATB choir that already has 2 co-directors. Our other 2 Masses are led by a group led by a guitar (4 p.m. Sat) and an older couple with a group that sings mostly unison (7 p.m. Sun) at the piano. We also have a children's choir that sings at 9 a.m. once a month, more or less.

    Each of these Masses functions independently of the other, and there's not a lot of cross-communication between them. For example, the 4 p.m. is mostly folky and appeals to a certain age group. At 9 a.m., both with myself & the cantor and the children's choir when it sings, rely more on traditional music, working mostly from the St. Michael's Hymnal. The 11 a.m. is all over the map, musically. Some of this is definitely because of the co-director business, but also because this Mass has a lot of newcomers to Canada attending. That has flavoured it somewhat, so it oscillates widely even within the same Mass. I'm not saying that negatively, but you don't know what to expect there from week to week lol except the 1st Sunday of the month is "Latin Week", with Latin Ordinaries and usually a Latin motet in there. The 7 p.m. is sort of middle of the road, sometimes using more traditional music but also some folk stuff, as well as newer stuff.

    At the end of the day, our parish tends to function as 4 mini-parishes all sharing the space and resources. Most people go to "their Mass" and stick to it. We do meet twice a year (before Christmas and the start of Lent) to plan Christmas & Holy Week, which is super helpful. No one is paid in our parish - all of this is strictly voluntary.

    So.... those who function in a parish similar to that, do you have a DOM, and what do they do? I'm thinking it's time for us to have one to try and bring some degree of unity between Masses (we have 5 different hymnals in the pews, which is cumbersome to say the least), but also to have a resource to coordinate, train, recruit and provide music to the different groups. We have the SATB choir, but neither director has a lot of formal music training, for example, and don't spend time on teaching singing as a skill or music theory, or anything. During Holy Week, some groups had a hard time sourcing some bits of music we needed, and it showed. Also, only some of the leaders have a good sense of what the liturgy entails. The rest seem to be always winging it.

    Thoughts and perspectives are greatly appreciated!
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,206
    You need a DOM because you have 4 mini-parishes. That is the problem.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,057
    This is an issue that needs firm pastoral vision. If your priest doesn’t see an issue here, this is going to be a huge struggle for you.

    A parish this size should have a director of music who is the primary musician at all 4 masses. It will be very difficult to bring unity to the parish with a DOM who oversees several diverse bodies of volunteers. Volunteers like their own rep and cannot be stretched too far into different repertoire.

    To bring the changes you are envisioning, the DOM will need full support of the pastor. Both DOM and pastor will have to ride out some rocky times, angry emails, and people leaving the parish. A good DOM would offer the possibility of building something much better, but there are growing pains.

    If budget for a full time musician is a concern, there are ways to address this. Recently, SquareNotes podcast featured a young woman in Florida, Kelsey LaCour, who was a new DOM and revamping a previously ad hoc program. It’s Season 7, Episode 1. You can find it on Apple Podcasts among other places.
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    If budget for a full time musician is a concern, there are ways to address this. Recently, SquareNotes podcast featured a young woman in Florida, Kelsey LaCour, who was a new DOM and revamping a previously ad hoc program. It’s Season 7, Episode 1. You can find it on Apple Podcasts among other places.


    I will definitely look that up. Yes, money is a concern. There's been fighting with the parish council on and off for years that some of the musicians (accompanists and choir directors mostly) should be paid, but there's always reluctance. They argue, "well, you should be doing it because it's a calling, and we don't pay our other volunteers", which is only true to a degree. You can train anyone to be an usher. But a musician has spent years learning and continues to learn, and has much time and energy invested. They are not even remotely equivalent, and I'm somewhat insulted at the suggestion that they are (which I know is a pride thing I should probably set aside, but still....)

    A parish this size should have a director of music who is the primary musician at all 4 masses. It will be very difficult to bring unity to the parish with a DOM who oversees several diverse bodies of volunteers. Volunteers like their own rep and cannot be stretched too far into different repertoire.


    I agree. I guess historically too is that some of this job was done by Sisters, but we no longer have any. We also realigned the DRE position (also filled by Sisters) and pay them as an employee that has a specific mandate and purview. This is really no different.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • davido
    Posts: 1,057
    No different.
    But again, it's about pastoral priorities. Council can wag their tongues all they want, but pastors sign checks.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,206
    well, you should be doing it because it's a calling, and we don't pay our other volunteers",


    More bullshit. You get what you pay for.
    Thanked by 2Liam LauraKaz
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    A parish this size should have a director of music who is the primary musician at all 4 masses


    A technical question. How does the DOM play the piano/organ (I use both) and direct the choir? Especially for organ, the setup of the console is NOT conducive to this (it's retrofitted after the construction of the church, and my back is to the altar/everyone else. I have mirrors so I can see what's going on).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • davido
    Posts: 1,057
    It depends on the situation.
    In your physical situation, with the DOM organist, the choir would have to be well enough trained to sing without a conductor. Maybe they could sneak a peak at you for initial breaths/cutoffs.

    Alternatively, you would need a conductor and a keyboardist for the choir mass, with the DOM filling whichever of those roles for which they are most qualified.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,006
    Sounds like you need a referee since no one is in charge.
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 450
    The pastor is in charge. Whether or not he thinks he needs a staff music or liturgical specialist depends on his priorities.

    I'm not a fan of one primary musician across all masses: it leaves you very dependent on one person, with a very big problem if they have a life-issue (sickness, family problem, etc) which makes them unavailable. It also prevents other people getting experience playing for liturgies on a sustained basis - anyone who is up-and-coming needs to leave to play regularly.

    A DOM could be very useful: recruiting, developing liturgical music knowledge and planning skills, encouraging development of shared repertoire - and expanding the programme in areas where are gaps: In your case, I'm not seeing anything for teens, or a funeral choir or liaison with schools (Depending in the needs in your area).

    They aren't essential, though. As you've seen, it is possible to function without one. The problems you listed are ones which many parishes would love to have!
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    Sounds like you need a referee since no one is in charge.


    I don't disagree. lol I once heard our pastor call our parish "complicated". That was a bit of an understatement.

    I'm not a fan of one primary musician across all masses: it leaves you very dependent on one person, with a very big problem if they have a life-issue (sickness, family problem, etc) which makes them unavailable. It also prevents other people getting experience playing for liturgies on a sustained basis - anyone who is up-and-coming needs to leave to play regularly.


    I agree. We are encountering this right now - one of our accompanists is off for surgery, so I'm picking up extra "shifts" let's call it. I'm doing 2 Masses on the regular because there are not enough people who are willing to do them, but we also need to give them the opportunity to do them, learn, and be mentored. That's crucial going forward.

    A DOM could be very useful: recruiting, developing liturgical music knowledge and planning skills, encouraging development of shared repertoire - and expanding the programme in areas where are gaps: In your case, I'm not seeing anything for teens, or a funeral choir or liaison with schools (Depending in the needs in your area).


    I agree here too. The training and recruitment issue is huge. Most of our singers don't read music, and the ones that do mostly just read solfege (they are mostly from Nigeria, where that is the norm for music education). Also, the SATB choir desperately needs someone to work with them on vocal technique, balance, etc.

    We do have a funeral choir of sorts, but it's a bunch of mostly ladies who randomly show up and sing at funerals. There's no practicing and no training. I do 99% of the funerals, and it frustrates me to no end. I love the funerals where the family requests a specific cantor (which are usually the ones where I get to play something other than On Eagle's Wings, Here I Am, Lord and Amazing Grace).

    We don't have anything specific for teens. The school confirms them in grade 8 (it's a K-8 school), and then they drop off the map. There's no Catholic high school here. I ran the children's choir for a while before handing it back to its original director, and I tried recruiting teens so I could cleave a program off for them. There wasn't sufficient interest. Our parish is both very young and very old - lots of older people, but lots of very young families. We're adding 2 new Kinder & grade 1 classes to the school next year due to demand, but there isn't sufficient demand in the upper grades to expand them. There have been recent attempts to get a youth group started, but it always fizzles out.

    The school has a half-time music teacher who more or less coordinates all the school's music needs, including Masses, although I was just asked to do the school's First Communion and Confirmation because she was unavailable.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,262
    A life-experience general rule of thumb:

    You should count yourself *very lucky* if you get what you paid for.

    * * *

    Back in the day for an intentional community in which I was involved in the choir and on the liturgical committee, I facilitated choir direction during the interval between music directors. I was the one who (briefly) announced the search for a successor music director to the community during the period of announcements at Mass. Of course that made me the mark for The Crank who marched up to me after Mass to question the very notion of a paid position for directing music (mind you, I always returned (endorsed) my stipends for cantoring to the collection, and never took any for my other work; I have never been a professional musician and was not making my living from that work). The Crank was Intense, as cranks are wont to be. When I explained that it was a matter of justice to pay professional musicians a living wage, well, that didn't go over well at all with The Crank. No way. Everyone should do everything in Church as an offering. When I asked The Crank if he was paid for his own living work....well, that short-circuited the conversation, as I imagined it would.

    Never be afraid of making a firm case for legitimate need for compensation. Do not self-censor in advance. People in church are all too accustomed to deploying the cudgel of Niceness to induce people to self-censor about something as basic as just compensation so that other people are not "made" to feel uncomfortable about having to deal with the request. As I bleat regularly here, for a very long time Catholic pastors got quite used to relying on religious sisters to bear certain liturgical and educational burdens - like playing organ in the loft, shall we say, and perhaps also running the parochial school choir as well? - for which a small stipend would be paid to their order; this got Catholic pastors hooked on the model of musicians doing things for nearly free. It's an ugly dynamic, and unworthy of the Body of Christ.

    /rant
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    When I explained that it was a matter of justice to pay professional musicians a living wage, well, that didn't go over well at all with The Crank. No way. Everyone should do everything in Church as an offering. When I asked The Crank if he was paid for his own living work....well, that short-circuited the conversation, as I imagined it would.


    THIS!! This is my work. I shouldn't have to have another job to pay the bills when this is what I do. I want to devote myself to making the best music program there is, even if I forever remain "just an accompanist". It's criminal that the arts aren't considered something worth paying for. We paid our musicians at our wedding $100 per musician when we got married in 2005. I am currently paid $100 for doing the same thing. It's ridiculous.

    As I bleat regularly here, for a very long time Catholic pastors got quite used to relying on religious sisters to bear certain liturgical and educational burdens - like playing organ in the loft, shall we say, and perhaps also running the parochial school choir as well? - for which a small stipend would be paid to their order; this got Catholic pastors hooked on the model of musicians doing things for nearly free.


    I think that is playing into this here too. There has been a steady stream of religious who did both education and music here for 100 years, but slowly they died and no one replaced them. Our last sister died unexpectedly about 7 years ago, and we were forced to hire a DRE to replace her. They went through like 6 volunteers in a year before they wised up. It's a 35-hour per week job! The school has been run by professional paid educators since the 1960's. But music has clopped along ever since the last Sister moved away and eventually died years ago. I mean, I literally started doing it because no one else was. Now it occupies 20-30 hours of my time per week for 2 Masses, including practice time, looking for music, selecting music, etc. I'm not wanting much, but something would be nice.
    Thanked by 3Liam CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 496
    They argue, "well, you should be doing it because it's a calling, and we don't pay our other volunteers",

    Canon Law says otherwise:
    Can. 231 §1. […]

    §2. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 230, §1 and with the prescripts of civil law having been observed, lay persons have the right to decent remuneration appropriate to their condition so that they are able to provide decently for their own needs and those of their family. They also have a right for their social provision, social security, and health benefits to be duly provided.


    guess historically too is that some of this job was done by Sisters,

    FWIW, my grandmother was the parish organist and choir director in the 1940s before she got married. She was paid a stipend. Her predecessor who had to take a leave of absence after being shot (rumour has it “Bring Flowers of the Rarest” was sung one too many times j/k) was also paid.

    How does the DOM play the piano/organ […] and direct the choir?

    As long as the organist is competent in accompanying and not just solo/performance playing, the organist can use the organ the direct the choir (assuming they listen to what’s going on around them), there’s also head nods, facial expressions, eyebrows, playing with only your feet and one hand at times, telepathy, etc. It’s not like the music is full of rits, rubato, fermatas (there is one popular hymn that has a fermata), etc. At the end of the day, it’s just learning how to communicate with your choir in a way both parties understand.

    Thanked by 2Abbysmum a_f_hawkins
  • Reval
    Posts: 193
    @abbysmum - " We paid our musicians at our wedding $100 per musician when we got married in 2005. I am currently paid $100 for doing the same thing. It's ridiculous." I got paid $100 for weddings in the early 1990s. I maybe make $125 or $150 now. I agree - it is ridiculous!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,744
    My pastor bumped it to $250 for weddings.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,357
    When I was still playing for weddings, I made $250 per wedding from 2019-2023