Choir Singing Out
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,514
    Help. I am having the most difficult time getting my members to sing out. I have four who sing out, and everyone else sings to themselves. I have to be animated and then maybe they will start, but I despise "conducting" hymns. It's not too bad on motets, where we have rehearsed, but even then they aren't solidly singing from their core.

    I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to get them to consistently sing with enthusiasm and vigour from the start or anecdotes on what worked for you.

  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,342
    Have you worked with any of the "offenders" one-on-one? I think that has worked best for me in the past
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,201
    Anna, would it be worthwhile to rehearse, or at least to read in rehearsal, the upcoming hymns?

    I've had good results (although of course I don't have a long director experience) with rehearsing very quietly: the singers-out then pull back, and everyone can hear his own voice and the singers-in gain confidence.
    Thanked by 2canadash LauraKaz
  • Here's a routine reminder: Critique principles, not people.
  • I think that this is a problem with breath control and breath apportionment.
    Breathing exercises on vowels and vowel lengths should help your singers to be more aware of the role and use of breath in singing.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    Is it can't, or won't?

    If it's can't, it means they need a bunch of voice work during rehearsal time.

    If it's won't. it's probably because they don't feel confident with the notes. The best solution is to make sure they are confident with the notes. The next best solution is to give your singers permission to fail. To go to Hell for a wrong note requires active participation of the will, and nobody wills to sing wrong notes. It may be that the occasional cluster heard sung vibrantly is preferable to a note-perfect but anemic performance

    The other reason is that they've been taught they must "blend". Voices that are being properly produced and singing the correct vowels will blend. But if you insist on "blend" before anything else, it's a race to the lowest common denominator of volume; every choir blends perfectly while singing rests.

    You could encourage people to "use their opera voices". One has to be careful here, as there are all kinds of mistakes they can make in this: carrying chest up too high, tongue or larynx depression, etc. If I have baritones singing tenor (and we all do), I'd rather have a weaker falsettoish sound than screaming.

    Gentle good-natured shaming can help. "Jeffrey and the Chantettes" is a phrase that appears at my rehearsals.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,585
    The other reason is that they've been taught they must "blend". Voices that are being properly produced and singing the correct vowels will blend. But if you insist on "blend" before anything else, it's a race to the lowest common denominator of volume; every choir blends perfectly while singing rests.


    Yes. We had an issue where one person actively refused to conform and then wanted us to conform to a more operatic style, instead of making us use our voices better so that he didn’t have to change. (He was not a good fit needless to say.)

    For Saint Joseph, we were without our usual leader whose voice also bridges the gap between the tenors and basses in the schola. And we have two real tenors (I know, I know! It is not real!). It mostly went well, but too much comes from the throat, not through it, regardless of whether it’s chest or head voice (we need more of the latter, or at least mixed voice, given the demands of the chant and the composition of the group).

    I think that this is a problem with breath control and breath apportionment.
    Breathing exercises on vowels and vowel lengths should help your singers to be more aware of the role and use of breath in singing.


    I don’t have nearly the formal training as many of you but yes. I realized yesterday how important it is to not run out of breath by using it all up to start a phrase, doubly so when you’re the conductor.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,342
    wanted us to conform to a more operatic style, instead of making us use our voices better so that he didn’t have to change


    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Here's a routine reminder: Avoid flames: critique principles, not people. Be discriminating but don't nitpick. Be academic not acerbic. Be principled not polemical.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 511
    every choir blends perfectly while singing rests

    Gold
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,585
    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here
    I mean, don't we all speak English? If you're the one sticking out and singing in a different style inappropriate for the style of music being sung (i.e. chant, but the same applies for Renaissance polyphony: I would not qualify e.g. the sound of the Tallis Scholars or the various groups which sing early music as "operatic", but they are just some of the best chorists in the world) than the rest of us, you are the problem, the point about "blending before all else" notwithstanding.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,846
    We all speak English, but it seems we don't necessarily agree about punctuation. On a third pass it's apparent that the meaning was
    Instead of making us use our voices better, he wanted us to conform to a more operatic style so that he didn’t have to change.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,514
    I think it is a mix of reasons and Jeffrey, you nailed it, so to speak.

    1. Not secure about the notes (and the text!). We don't practise hymns. Sometimes I would prefer ppl just sing the melody and lets get a good sound, but the altos ADORE singing their part. But they are often lost and slightly confused and this has partly to do with this new hymnal we have that has parts that are different from what they have been singing for the last two decades. So, then they are searching for their notes a bit and not singing out. The problem too is that I don't have time to sing through hymns at rehearsal. We have so much to do for Easter.... I have some really good singers, and I have to keep them a bit happy and engaged so they don't quit.

    2. Afraid to make a mistake: I tell them that I really don't care (for hymns, not motets) if every note is perfect, but just to sing out and sing a line, not an individual note.

    3. Breath support. For sure. At yesterday's rehearsal I worked through some breath support exercises and VOILA! (Thanks for the reminder!)

    4. I'm always telling them to sing like opera stars. I don't have a crew who will really sing like an opera singer (vibrato and whatever else) but it does make them more engaged, from the core. They sit up straighter. They drop their jaws. They sing rounder vowels that are much more mellow and they sing OUT.

    Thanks all!

  • Here's a routine reminder: Be academic not acerbic.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,585
    It’s quite annoying that I have to guess at what the meaning of “I don’t understand.”

    I don’t mind being told that I’m missing a comma or something. I do mind having to guess at what the problem is, and this happens constantly here. It is aggravating — and since I can’t tag the person who made the remark (I would characterize it as aggressive, not even passively so), well, here we are, I’m spun up and annoyed again.

    But that’s also not how I would fix my mistake. Cheers, everyone!
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,846
    Speaking for myself, I find the more annoyed I am the more it pays to proofread.