Music for Guitar Masses?
  • SReilly
    Posts: 1
    Greetings. Our Music Director of 20 years is retiring in a few weeks and I and a few guitar buddies have been tasked to (temporarily) provide guitar music for the Teen Mass. We are amateurs who love to play together, but up for the Mass challenge. This could be an opportunity to take music a little more up-tempo and perhaps modernize things a bit to be more attractive to teens. Would anyone care to share recommendations for good teen guitar mass songs (or a liturgy's worth, or two)? We like praise music, as long as it's reverent and within guidelines of the church. We also hope to one-day do a special 70s vintage guitar mass. But one thing at a time. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.
    Thanked by 1smt
  • Welcome to the forum! Were I in your shoes, I would take this opportunity to slowly guide the kids toward truly sacral music. The guidelines for liturgical music as put forth by the Church for the past century put a heavy emphasis on Gregorian chant and music which is similar to it. Likewise, the relevant Church documents caution against allowing profane (secular) instruments and styles to be used for liturgical functions. Take this as an opportunity to do a deep dive into what the Church has to say about sacred music, and apply it in little ways as you work! Sacrosanctum Concilium, Tra Le Sollecitudini, and Musician Sacram are good places to start. The wonderful thing about chant is that it doesn't even need accompaniment so, in that way, it's highly versatile. Maybe not the answer you're looking for, but I hope that it provides some things to think about and consider.

    If you're classically trained, Renaissance and Baroque lute repertoire could be appropriate and fitting. My experience with Catholic teenagers (years of teaching in a parochial school) has been that they're largely starved of authentic sacred music, and that they want more of it when they hear it!

  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,942
    If I may, what do you actually mean when you say “70’s vintage guitar mass”? Are you speaking of instruments? Repertoire? Reliving the ‘good old days’? These are genuine questions, as in truly unsure what you mean by the phrase.

    I’m also curious what function such a mass would serve, or rather, what you would hope to achieve by approaching mass that way.
    Thanked by 1AnimaVocis
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,942
    As to the general premise of your post, I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but in my limited experience, guitar masses tend to not attract (and certainly do not keep) teens. There seems to be a bit of a generational phenomenon surrounding ‘guitar masses’, but most younger people I’ve encountered tend to not be very interested in such masses, as they view them démodé and something their parents (or grandparents) were in to once upon a time. And even if they are open to the idea generically, having the older generation be the ones to offer said music is no different than dad wanting to listen to the oldies in the car. It’s not their music. In any case, it’s not sacred music that draws them into deeper mystery. It’s ho-hum, daily music with religious words.

    At a deeper level, while I think your desire to offer mass in a way that speaks to teens is absolutely wonderful (we all strive for as much in our own ways), I think the premise of how you wish to achieve it is flawed. Mass isn’t about excitement. It’s about sacred mystery. Trying to excite teens means trying to entertain them. They need to be intrigued and invited into something deeper and transcendental. The proof of this pudding is the explosion of chant, and the swaths of young people attending Latin masses.

    With all of that said, as I suspect you are going to offer such a mass regardless since it was asked of you, I would humbly plead that you offer music that is meditative, and in particular, choose things that have profound texts, not the dribble of the last 40-50 years. Also, keep amplification to a minimum, and offer the music from the loft, or back of church; don’t stand up front or in the sanctuary and make it feel like a concert. If you need to be seen, mass is serving you, and not the other way around. No drum sets (these are technically verboten according to the principles outlined in the documents mentioned by Trenton above).

    I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating here, and this is seriously worth pondering:

    The world will always do the world better than the church can.

    Translation: the world will always do worldly music better than poor imitations of it during mass. Let secular music be secular, and sacred music be sacred.

    If you use your instruments to provide music at mass, think about how you can adapt your style of playing and presentation to be sacred, and not just normal hum and strum but with religious words. And again, consider if this is a generational attachment, rather than something that actually serves teens. Fundamentally, their needs for mass shouldn’t be too different from normal adults.
  • ...and offer the music from the loft, or back of church; don't stand up front or in the Sanctuary and make it feel [and look! like a concert!!!


    And who is it, who when his son asks him for a loaf of bread gives him a serpent?
    Thanked by 2oldhymns LauraKaz
  • This is the wrong forum to ask lol. But I'm just graduating college and so while not a teen am pretty close. My advice? Just don't do it, guitar in mass is cringy and teens know that. Weirdly enough I would say add a lot of Latin and music pitched in a minor key. I don't know why the minor key thing but in this age that's what I've found resonates with teens. For context, I worked with a high school choir as part of my music degree.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,158
    In the same spirit, if there is going to be vintage guitar music, let this be the model for how they should be used:

    https://youtu.be/hVOKjnDjTC4?si=-6sAywjLeIMgdFIj&t=8
  • Man I love Apollo's Fire.
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • This is a joke, right? Was this written by The Onion?
  • I thought he might just have stumbled into the wrong forum, til he mentioned his ambition to do a "vintage 70s guitar mass" which I felt was the undeniable tell. I also think a mark of a goodnatured troll is leaving that one clear tell, so fair play imo.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,485
    Assuming this isn't a troll post...

    1. Don't change anything for some time. When you do change things, change things with a liturgical season.

    2. Introduce new material one piece at a time.

    3. Don't change anything at all unless you have a clear mandate from your pastor.

    From here, I'm making a bunch of assumptions. These are my assumptions:
    - most of the current literature is Hillsong-adjacent P&W music
    - the situation is currently a band with keyboard, guitar(s), bass, drum set, and vocals
    - the teens are somewhat satisfied with the music but not particularly enthusiastic about it
    - traditional sacred music (either Gregorian chant / polyphony or congregational hymns) has not been found wanting but rather not tried at all and the teens are mostly unfamiliar with it, rather than actively antagonistic
    - the grownups, especially the older folks, are somewhat antagonistic to traditional music

    With those assumptions in mind, here is more or less what I would do, in more or less the order I would do it.

    4. The first change to make is to remove stuff that is lyrically bad. Read the texts of each piece you are programming and if something is theologically unsound, stupid, meaningless, or otherwise terrible, stop programming it. Shred all copies. Never mention it again.

    5. Introduce some well-loved and extremely singable classic hymnody, with folkish guitar accompaniment. Do this first at the Offertory. Try real hard to align the text with the readings. People love it when they notice this. All the hard feelings of having to sing a new song they didn't know and like already melt away when they realize, "Oh, wow, the Gospel was all about Jesus as the good shepherd and then we sang that song about God being a shepherd."

    6. Try singing a few things unaccompanied, with harmony if possible. Post-communion is a good place for this. Short songs like Taize and Iona community work well here.

    7. There's really no need to try to get the congregation to sing during communion. Great opportunity to remove one awful piece from your set list every week. Set a more solemn tone with some classical guitar. If you can do instrumental arrangements of traditional Catholic eucharistic hymns, that would be a great thing.

    8. Introduce a chant-based setting or the Ordinary. The one in the Roman Missal is a good start. Psallite is also quite good if you can muster the singers for it.

    9. Find some really sturdy processional hymns that are rousing and easy to sing. Program them at the beginning of Mass.

    10. If you have a handful of P&W songs that are theologically sound and not terrible, and the kids express a desire to continue rocking out, program these at the Dismissal. Otherwise, move your sturdy processional hymns to the dismissal and try some Introits.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 732
    A couple of suggestions, one is to check out the music selection at Sacred Music Library, they offer a wide range of music for the church. Their Catholic Book of Hymns & Chants comes in a "chords" edition. Also, check out Top Catholic Songs they also have a number of resources that could be helpful.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,002
    Take all your sacro-pop music to the parking lot. Set it on fire. Throw in the guitar for good measure. Now doesn't that warm your heart - and toes if you get too close?

  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,112
    I wish Melofluent were still alive to make suggestions on accompaniment of chant with the guitar.

    As has been pointed out, this is not a repertoire than most of us interact with on a daily basis. Since this has been billed as "temporary", I'd find out what people have been singing, and do that. But if you do want to build something new that furthers the Church, I'd suggest replacing whatever they're doing for the Ordinary with the ICEL/Jubilate Deo composite chant mass, in English, with guitars. This is something that every Catholic is expected to know. Latin is better, but maybe baby steps, especially in a temporary situation. This may be in whatever resource you're using; in Breaking Bread, it's what's used for the "Order of Mass" right at the beginning, and the Latin version is near the end of the book. Or see here: https://icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.html
    Thanked by 2LauraKaz CHGiffen
  • Felicia
    Posts: 124
    Oregon Catholic Press published a collection of Traditional Hymns for Guitar in 1983, but it's out of print. Anyhow, the accompaniment books for many hymnals and missalettes include guitar chords even for traditional hymns. IMO, guitar sounds better with slower, quieter tunes like Slane or Unde et memore, rather than with more boisterous tunes.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen mattebery
  • Resident guitar guy here checking in after a bit of an absence…….

    I started to read the whole thread before commenting, but was compelled to stop when I read the following:

    “This could be an opportunity to take music a little more up-tempo and perhaps modernize things a bit to be more attractive to teens.”

    To which I say bat guano.

    You can play guitar and apply it to hymns in the missal in a manner which is reverent to existing church praxis, and the very presence of the guitar will appeal to the younger element, the laid back nature will appeal to the adults who may typically come to an earlier mass to avoid the pomp of a pipe organ or grand piano and full choir. Fingerpick if you are able, when strumming, strum light and relaxed. Do not rush the beat…especially if your parish is loaded with natural reverb like mine is. Stick with hymns that are simple and familiar; if you do go modern, stay with the familiar ones and I repeat: fingerpick and/or strum lightly.

    The moment you get happy clappy and nun strum to a straight up beat, you’re headed for a trainwreck. Or a circus. Don’t ask me how I know this……..blank faces staring back at you is not a good thing.

    This is what 9 years of leading the music for early mass has taught me.

    YMMV. If you prove me wrong, I’m happy for you.

    *edit to add: your capo is your best friend…..
  • Take all your sacro-pop music to the parking lot. Set it on fire. Throw in the guitar for good measure. Now doesn't that warm your heart - and toes if you get too close?


    An older thread on this allows for organs to be included……
  • Oregon Catholic Press published a collection of Traditional Hymns for Guitar in 1983, but it's out of print. Anyhow, the accompaniment books for many hymnals and missalettes include guitar chords even for traditional hymns.


    We use an OCP missal, and the choice of chords they use in their musician’s supplement is horrendous. Cluttered, awkward, and tacky is the best way I can describe. I rewrite nearly all of them.
  • I’m under 40. I don’t even want to hear the classical guitar setting on the electric piano at Mass. I’m done with guitars at Mass. I heard too much guitar growing up on the prairies and going to Mass in small towns. Between the sound of a 12 string guitar being strummed, a very pedestrian walking bass line, and the sound of wire brushes lightly dusting the drums, and the accordion, oh the accordion. Nope. Sat through too many polka Masses growing up. Pipe Organ or bust from now on.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,002
    I am not aware of any church documents promoting guitars at mass. Have I missed something? Pianos, either, for that matter.

    You can play guitar and apply it to hymns in the missal in a manner which is reverent to existing church praxis, and the very presence of the guitar will appeal to the younger element, the laid back nature will appeal to the adults who may typically come to an earlier mass to avoid the pomp of a pipe organ or grand piano and full choir.


    We are in that time scripture mentions when they want their ears tickled.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • I am not aware of any church documents promoting guitars at mass. Have I missed something? Pianos, either, for that matter.


    I never claimed the Church “promotes” the use of guitar over a pipe organ. There are plenty of church documents that allow its use.

    We are in that time scripture mentions when they want their ears tickled.


    I agree with the sentiment. In -my- case, there are 5 masses at my parish, and of the 5, the one I serve, the hymns I choose are far closer to pre-V2 and more traditional norms than the other 4 masses. And that includes the 11AM mass where our recently rebuilt pipe organ is in use.
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,002
    I actually have heard some Spanish Baroque masses where the guitar was a part of the instrumental ensemble. It functioned similarly to what a harpsichord would do in music of that era. It worked out rather well.
  • I think with fingerpicking only it could be appropriate occasionally, but at many TLM parishes it would cause a minor scandal.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,888
    Yea, the organ is def the instrument of the liturgy. And I can speak from experience as one who owns three guitars and who has played them at liturgies for years. Please ditch the guitars at Mass.
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 96
    Yea, the organ is def the instrument of the liturgy. And I can speak from experience as one who owns three guitars and who has played them at liturgies for years. Please ditch the guitars at Mass


    I spent many years as an AFM professional guitar and bass player, in big bands, shows, dances, etc.

    I currently play organ at our NO masses. I began by playing a lot of guitar under our previous pastor, who used the OCP music books. Our current pastor prefers much more traditional music, and so do I.

    I also played guitar at early "folk masses" circa 1971.

    As far as I am concerned, the guitar is NOT a church instrument.

    I'm not fond of the piano in church either, for that matter.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,942
    I'm not fond of the piano in church either, for that matter.
    One of my first acts at my current post was to remove the keyboard from the loft. Nothing but the organ. I would honestly benefit from having a piano for rehearsals at times, but I've foregone that in the interest of a very cut-and-dry arrangement. This served me well when we had a family specifically request for the organ to not be used at a funeral because they only wanted piano, but we were able to happily reply that the organ was the only option.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,002
    We had an electric piano in the loft. The only times we used it at mass were when the organ was broken - it happened - for weddings and for accompaniments that could not be played well on organ.

    During my college days, I accompanied hymns at chapel because the piano could not sustain the singing of 1500 people at chapel. It just wasn't powerful enough.
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 277
    If this was the type of motet sung at a guitar mass, I could go to one quite cheerfully.
    https://youtu.be/D6sVqgJhtQg?si=Pob4Eqxm_7DU1UWN
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,942
    and for accompaniments that could not be played well on organ.
    My preferred method is to simply not do music that cannot be done properly with an organ. There are a few pieces you can never rid yourself of… Like damned zombies… but there are many more pieces that you can happily cull this way.