Presentation of the Lord- OF
  • Gaudium
    Posts: 54
    Curious as to your church's practice regarding the Presentation of the Lord, which falls on a Sunday this year. Are the candles your parish uses similar to the Easter Vigil candles? There is no mention of when candles are extinguished, so just as long as they last...? We don't have room for a procession, but were planning on the second form: solemn entrance. It seems to me from a conversation with my pastor that the blessing of candles and procession does not take place if it falls on weekday Masses, but it seems as though it should be part of the Mass no matter what day it falls... Any guidance would be appreciated!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,434
    Traditionally the blessing always happens on February 2 even if the Purification office and Mass are moved to Monday which happens after Septuagesima (although it’s supposed to be simplified in parishes, as opposed to cathedrals and collegiate churches). So I see no reason to suppress the blessing on weekdays since it can be merely recited.

    The candles are like those of the vigil. We have fatter ones with big plastic cups that are easier to manipulate. It is emphatically not the time to bless everyone’s candles. It’s really for these candles to be distributed and for the church’s candles. There is a blessing in the Ritual for blessing candles otherwise, and people need to be reminded that they need to bring a reasonable amount of candles if the priest is willing to also bless those candles — La Salette is not the Gospel.

    I can’t remember off of the top of my head the exact Roman custom for lighting and extinguishing candles. But surely someone here can find what the preconciliar practice would be. For want of more explicit instructions in the missal, I would do that.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,937
    Aren't the candles lit for the Gospel, as well as the Canon?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,490
    Fortescue (1918)
    During Mass the candles are held lighted during the gospel, and from the Sanctus to the end of the Communion.
    That may refer just to the ministers candles, not those of the congregation, kneeling with candles and bowing at the consecration sounds hazardous!
    In small churches -
    If the procession is not made, strictly, the candles should not be blessed. They are blessed and distributed primarily in order to be held during- the procession. Indeed, in many countries the candles are given back to the church afterwards. But in England it is not unusual to bless and distribute candles at Candlemas, even when there is no procession. People keep them for use at sick calls, or to burn around the bed of a dying person.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,434
    (Yes, I was pretty sure that it’s the same as at a Requiem.)

    Well the ministers don’t have candles except for the priest so obviously it’s anyone who has a candle. And everyone kneels for the consecration.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • Gaudium
    Posts: 54
    I'm speaking directly for the OF, Ordinary Form. In which the Roman Missal states "The faithful hold in their hands unlighted candles..... While the candles are being lit.... etc... All carry lighted candles"
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,490
    Gaudium
    In 2020 I was at Westminster Cathedral for Candlemas, the 5:30pm Mass. Those of us with the wit to gather at the back and process with candles kept them alight until the Gloria finished. Earlier I had been at an Ordinariate Mass (more OF than EF), all processed with lighted candles round inside the church, and again kept them alight until the Gloria had finished, I think we re-lit them for the Gospel, but not later. However there was a choir and orchestra performing Mozart's Sparrow Mass so the liturgical flow was obscured. (And I decided to go to Mass again to focus on God rather than music.)
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,434
    (And I decided to go to Mass again to focus on God rather than music.)


    I'm a bit of a purist compared to my pastor who wanted the Sparrow Mass for Christmas but a) not the time, nor the place and b) the commentary is hardly needed.

    Right, I understand this from the thread title, that it's about the Novus Ordo, but you said that there's no mention of extinguishing them. However they are too messy and dangerous frankly to keep lit the whole time, so the traditional practice seems wise to follow as it's not contradicted by the new missal. There is also great symbolism in lighting them for the Gospel and during the Canon; at a Requiem, they're lit as well for the absolutions (ironically the acolytes don't hold their lit candles at a Requiem!)
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,004
    Both The Roman Missal and the Ceremonial of Bishops are silent about the time the candles are to be extinguished. However, from Msgr. Peter Elliott, Ceremonies of the Liturgical Year (2002, p. 48):

    ‘Strictly speaking, candles should be extinguished at the conclusion of the procession, but it would seem more convenient, and seemly, for all who carried candles in the procession to extinguish them only after the Opening Prayer.’ [7. This would be in harmomy with the Psalm Sunday Procession, which concludes with the Opening Prayer; cf. MR, Holy Week, Passion Sunday.]

    After the Collect, the Mass continues in the usual manner. That means, that the candles are not to be lit again for the Gospel, nor for the Eucharistic Prayer.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,434
    “Not to be lit” is ridiculous. And people hold their palms anyway. What are you going to do, write to Rome to whine that the celebrant takes up his palm again for the Passion?

    There is no contradictory rubric. People are free to do this or not. But it’s really obnoxious that you think that the trad way is forbidden when it is clearly not. It may not be intended. It rarely is. But you’re doing a great service for the traditionalists when you insist on this.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,004
    Wow, where does the harsh tone come from?

    ‘Not to be lit again’ (after extinguishing them) is just a consequence of the prescriptive nature of rubrics. The absence of a contradictory rubric doesn’t mean one can do anything one wants (at least, in the OF). If there’s no rubric to light the candles again, it’s just not supposed to be done.

    Anyway, I have never seen that at the Presentation of the Lord the candles are lit again, after they have been extinguished after the Collect.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,434
    Where does the harsh tone come from?

    Because you insist that it cannot be done. But OK. More power to you. I will happily crusade for the abolition of the NO when all is said and done.