"Deus Israel" Introit Translation
  • CantorCole
    Posts: 69
    Hello everyone,

    I am looking for an approved translation of the introit "Deus Israel". I cannot simply use modern bible translations to obtain this passage, since these translations use a different manuscript family for the Book of Tobit. The best I can find currently (which appears in most programs I've found online) is:

    "May the God of Israel join you together; and may he be with you, who took pity upon two only children: and now, O Lord, make them bless thee more fully"

    Does anyone know if there is an approved translation for use in the Liturgy?

    Thank you,
    CantorCole
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    I see the Introit Deus Israel is no longer in the GR Has it been set aside as insufficiently 'authentic gregorian'?
  • CantorCole
    Posts: 69
    @a_f_hawkins

    Yes, that was my assumption. But according to the preface of the 1974 Graduale Romanum, these chants can still be used if one so desires.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 480
    The 1965 Roman Missal renders it thus:

    May the God of Israel join you together; and may he be with you, who was merciful to two only children: and now, O Lord, make them bless you more fully. (P. T. Alleluia, alleluia). Ps. 127, 1 Blessed are all who fear the Lord, who walk in his ways. V. Glory be to the Father. May the God of Israel.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen irishtenor
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,364
    I don't have a problem using the 1964/65 translation, but seriously: no one cares if you use a hand missal that was duly approved for what you do in your own parish or for what you put as the translation when you do the Latin.
    Thanked by 4ServiamScores tomjaw Liam irishtenor
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,910
    Considering how oddly some of the “official” translations are, I’m inclined to agree with MatthewRoth. Last week’s gospel acclamation verse was a great example of that. “Show us, Lord, your love, and grant us your salvation.” The Latin said “Show us, Lord, your mercy…” (misericordiam). I assume it’s some “dynamic equivalency” codswallop.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw LauraKaz irishtenor
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,364
    Sigh.

    They were either working from a different text, the Latin having been revised at some point, or they’ translated based on some Scriptural source or sources in lieu of the Latin, which is also nonsensical.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    I think this stems from doubt about whether people understand the word mercy properly. misericordiam according to the best Latin dictionary is 'tender-heartedness, pity, compassion, sympathy, mercy', but people see it more in terms of their need for penitence than of God's unquenchable love for them.
    Thanked by 4Liam CHGiffen ServiamScores Paul F. Ford
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,364
    It’s both but also: I love the little Thérèse. Her understanding is very much the latter. And it’s not really lacking, although I suppose that many preachers hack that understanding in order to water it down, i.e. God’s love is so great that no conversion and no penance are required.
    Thanked by 4a_f_hawkins CHGiffen ServiamScores LauraKaz
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 763
    The Ordinariates' Divine Worship has it in the 2nd mass provided for the celebration of holy matrimony:

    "The God of Israel make you one, and may he be with you even as he had mercy of two that were the only begotten of their fathers: grant them mercy, O Lord, and finish their life in health with joy. (Alleluia. Alleluia). Ps. Blessed are all they that fear the Lord: and walk in his ways."
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CantorCole
    Posts: 69
    @IanW

    Wow that is a convoluted translation, in my opinion
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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