Veni Sancte canon in mensural notation...help?
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    I know the basic rudiments of mensural notation, but this one is beyond my ability. Anyone feeling bored and want to transcribe the attached canon for me? :)

    Note: the attached image is NOT this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buttg4l9JSQ

    ...nor this: https://www.musicalion.com/en/scores/sheet-music/6288/adam-gumpelzhaimer/17469/benedic-anima-mea-veni-sancte-spiritus#interpretation=1

    Thanks for anyone who can help!
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Having thought about this awhile, it seems to me that the last two lines ("Resolutio") explain the first two mensural lines. The "1 (over) 2", "1 (over) 3", and "1 (over) 4" are mensural indications that basically say a semibreve gets multiplies by 2, 3, and 4, respectively, as evidenced in the resolution (the semibreve of the upper two lines becoming a breve, dotted breve, and a long, respectively). The clef seems to be a Fa clef. This is supposedly a canon, but I'm not sure what the delay and pitch of the second voice is ... possibly a fourth above (or fifth below)?
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  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    Charles, thank you...seems to be a tough case to crack!
  • I don't see any obvious indications that it's a canon showing multiple voices from the single part; at least that's not apparent from the notation. Is there any other information?

    What we do have in the image is one melody set out twice. In the upper two staves, it is shown using proportion signs. The proportions show various levels of augmentation, as CHGiffen suggests. In the lower two stave it's shown again but without any of the proportion. In other words, the augmentation is all written out.

    The clef looks like a soprano clef (bottom line is middle C).

    Hope that helps!
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    Here's an attempt. The rhythm at fidelium is very tricky. It looks the same as amoris, but the longer note value before the syncopation really makes it challenging.

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  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    Although others would surely prefer something like one of these ;)

    image

    image
    Veni Sancte Spiritus GN.jpg
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    Veni Sancte Spiritus Solesmish.jpg
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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    Heath might have given a little context: what is this from?
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    Patrick, thanks for the notation!

    So I got it from a collection called "Compendium Musicae," late 16th century, editor was Adam Gumpelzhaimer. It seems to be anonymous...and now I'm questioning if it's even a canon.

    Relevant pages in the collection (large file) are PDF pages 31 ... and maybe 32: https://vmirror.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usimg/9/9a/IMSLP292132-PMLP325522-gumpelzhaimer_compendium_musicae_1591_386871701.pdf

    Any more insight is so welcome! I've very intrigued by this...
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  • Ok. Thanks for that context, Heath. I think my initial guess was right, and that it's not a two-from-one canon. Rather it's a music example showing the use of proportion signs for augmentation. Here is a translation of that paragraph:
    Now then there follow the proportions of augmentation, of course, the sub-duple, sub-triple, and sub-quadruple. These then can all be comprehended under one rule, that within each proportion, all the notes and rests are augmented by whatever time the numerator is contained in the denominator, in the following manner: in sub-duple, everything is doubled; in sub-triple, everything is tripled; and in sub-quadruple, everything is quadrupled.


    The music example shows an example of each of these proportions in the first two lines, and in the second two lines it is shown written without proportion signs. Such late examples of proportion are always deliberately weird theory exercises, meant to show the power of the notation; these are not things you would ever encounter in a piece. The best way to read these numbers, as Tinctoris suggests, is to think "[numerator] in the time of the [denominator]." Thus the first proportion (1/2) is "one semibreve in the time of two semibreves." In other words, you have to double everything. In actual practical music from the sixteenth century, the only proportion sign you are likely to encounter is cut-c 3/2, which means roughly that the breve gets the tactus and that you sing three semibreves in the time of two. Of course, in actual performance, what this means for tempo is by no means a settled question without controversy! Is it tactus-equals-tactus, bar-equals-bar, minim-equals-minim, or just do whatever you want?

    Patrick, while I do think your second effort is more prayerful, of course, I do want to ask why you chose four-to-one reduction, which I think makes this more confusing. In other words, you take the semibreve of the regular, non-augmented version, as the quarter note. This makes it seem odder than it really is. I'd prefer to see a notation like what Gumpelzhaimer shows in lines three and four.
    Thanked by 2Heath CHGiffen
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    I do want to ask why you chose four-to-one reduction, which I think makes this more confusing.
    I assumed that in asking for a transcription, the questioner was seeking something like a more standard form of modern notation without extensive use of breves and longae, which required exactly that level of reduction. Here are the original note values, first with G clef and slurs, then with C clef and no slurs.
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    Veni Sancte Spiritus original.jpg
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