U.S. Missal "Vidi aquam"
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 240
    Can someone with access to an altar missal confirm that this is indeed what is printed for the renewal of baptismal promises [the red dots are my emphasis]? Are we to assume that it was transcribed by someone who doesn't know how to read a porrectus and that it doesn't represent a legitimate variant? How does such a thing get a concordat cum originali?
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  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,028
    Yes, that is in the Missal. Yes, it is erroneous.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 240
    I sure am glad somebody noticed in the intervening twelve years! I'm pleased to see that they also added the liquescents and corrected the slurring and hyphenation.
  • Elmar
    Posts: 502
    For what it's worth, the corrected pdf document on the ICEL site is dated August 19th, 2011.

  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,001
    Well, not much. There’s no indication anywhere that the missal contains a mistake.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic kevinf
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 240
    Out of curiosity, is anyone here knowledgeable of whether square Gregorian notation has been retained in any vernacular altar missals? I know that it's still used in the Latin novus ordo books.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,001
    That might something to ask someone at ICEL.

    The French uses eighth notes with stems and almost completely abandons adaptations of chant; it is chant-like melodically, in a way, and in the opposite of Dr. Mahrt's complaint about so much English chant-like music, these melodies do ascend, but in a way that takes the melody away from chant and in particular the chants of the missal, e.g. the eucharistic prayer (the Roman Canon here) does not sound much like the vaguely mode III or IV chants except at the end of major phrases such as the words of institution. The adaptation of Mortem tuam even uses dotted quarter notes, other texts dotted half notes.

    (I can't find the adaptations of other parts or see whether they retain Latin parts in any place.)
  • GerardH
    Posts: 417
    Out of curiosity, is anyone here knowledgeable of whether square Gregorian notation has been retained in any vernacular altar missals?

    Not an altar missal, but there is Singing the Mass from Solesmes.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 240
    Good to know! The Adoremus Hymnal also has square neumes for the English chants.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,967
    The 2011 USA edition of Roman Missal 3 does *not* use square Gregorian notation.

    This is an example of the notation style used therein:

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  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 358
    German missal uses square notation.

    Italian missal uses modern notation.

    I'm not sure if the currently used Czech missal contains any notation at all. The 1980' edition I used to serve with as a kid certainly did contain some limited amount (possibly just the Exsultet) of square notation. A separate volume with notated prefaces, eucharistic prayers etc. uses square notation for the adapted chant tones. (There are not-chant-based settings as well. Cf. a recently published insert with a new preface.)
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic GerardH
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,001
    The German missal uses square notes? But their hymnal doesn’t, AFAICT.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 358
    That's correct.

    Concerning the missal see a e.g. the little photo at the end of this article https://www.domradio.de/artikel/namensgeber-fuer-wichtige-messbuecher-benediktinerpater-anselm-schott-vor-125-jahren
    or https://www.4teachers.de/?action=keywordsearch&searchtype=images&searchstring=Choralnotation
    (in these cases it's square notation on just two lines - this kind of reduced staff is used for simple small-ranged recitative chant also in some other German books).
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • Lincoln_Hein
    Posts: 125
    In Brazil they said that the missal could not be in square notation due to an express request from the Vatican. Here the episcopal conference will launch an edition with the melodies of the missal in square notation in a separate version with only the parts set to music.
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 143
    Lincoln, for those who can read Portuguese, it would be very interesting to see a source for this request from the Vatican.
    Thanked by 1WGS