Sibelius Headaches
  • JT_Fields
    Posts: 11
    I am pretty fast with Sibelius, but I feel like I am fighting the software doing non-metric writing. Is there anything worth switching to? Is switching even worth it? The learning curve to get fast with a notation software is long and although Sibelius is annoying, I can work it pretty well at this point.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Dorico doesn't "think in meters". I've got it but I'm not using it, mostly because of the problem you mentioned. I've been using Finale since. v. 2.6

    I'm coming to think that rather than pre-plan measure lengths and hiding time signatures, I should just hide barlines instead. Maybe you can translate that thought into Sib-speak.

    Has Sibelius implemented SMuFL yet (I should know, but don't). It's been the game-changer in Finale 27. For doing chant, Gregorio is still better and easier. But for bits of incidental chant in polyphony, one can get reasonable results now using the SMuFL neumes.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    It looks like it doesn't. Musescore also does, though I find the neumes really awkward even for incidental bits like an incipit (for psalms or Magnificats in particular, if I wanted square notation for the chant, I'd do the polyphony and then just edit it with another program to include the Gregorio output either by splicing the PDFs or manipulating them, which is possible but above my paygrade; you can also include the first as a graphic in LaTeX).

    Unfortunately Musescore, while easy enough to use, also thinks in meters, and I just hide time signatures using something like 25/8. It'd be more than OK if I was doing things just for the melody of a psalm, but since I type out accompaniment, it can get crowded with some of the psalms, at least using default settings for the text font.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 537
    Open time signatures in Dorico are fantastic. Seems there’s a free version you could try…
    Thanked by 3m_r_taylor JT_Fields ServiamScores
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    This older thread might be worth perusing. Among other things, it contains my own way of engraving chant in modern notation (stemless or stemmed):

    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/12198/the-great-debate-finale-vs.-sibelius/p1

    Thanked by 1JT_Fields
  • JT_Fields
    Posts: 11
    Are Dorico open time signatures good enough to make the switch? What's tricky is that when I am writing metrical music, I can generally make a tiny little sketch on paper and then do most "creating" right in Sibelius. But if I write things with some non-metered sections, I do a lot of sketching out on paper and then move to Sibelius when I have a pretty good idea of what the finished product will look like. It's not the end of the world, but with a tight schedule, it can make me write less than I like to. Would Dorico solve this? Would the method that CHGiffen uses solve it?
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 326
    Dorico has a 60 day free trial.

    In Dorico: Open program. Uncheck time signature box in "create new" dialog. Go to "write" mode, Shift + N to start entering notes.

    After writing out your notes, navigate to anywhere you want to put in a barline. Shift + B brings up the barline dialog. Type in | to insert barline, hit enter. (Typing ' will insert a tick, || inserts a double bar, etc.)

    That's it.

    If you want the stemless look: select the notes you want to remove stems from. Type J to bring up the Jump Bar. Type "hide stem" and hit enter. Quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc will progressively squeeze your notes together more if you want a little control over differences in horizontal placement.
    Thanked by 1JT_Fields
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 150
    I was a lifelong (rather short life at this point) finale user... I switched to dorico about 2 years ago, and I now feel like I was living in the middle ages before Dorico... It is the smoothest program I ever worked with.

    The ability to create modern notation chant scores is only one of Dorico's many huge strengths! In the same vein, you can switch between metric music and non-metered music quickly without having to open tons of menus or artificially putting in the right number of beats.

    Of course, it is best to use with a midi keyboard, but I figure that is pretty much a given.
    Thanked by 1JT_Fields
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 76
    I was an early adopter of Dorico, and I heartily agree with all the endorsements here. For various professional obligations I keep up with Sibelius and Finale as well, but there is no question that Dorico is my default choice for any project of my own, together with Gregorio and LaTeX for scholarly and chant stuff. I would say it’s worth the effort of relearning how to engrave. Just the improved interface with lyrics alone is worth switching over from Sibelius.

    Dorico has generally offered a pretty deep discount if you can show that you are switching from an active Sibelius or Finale license. Take the plunge!
    Thanked by 1JT_Fields
  • JT_Fields
    Posts: 11
    Gosh you have all made an excellent sales pitch. I might have to try it.
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 150
    There is a bit of a learning curve at first, but the Dorico forum community is exceptionally supportive and helpful. Also, if I can find my copy, there is a Dorico cheat sheet with all of the basic key commands that make life a breeze!
    Thanked by 1JT_Fields
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 326
    A set of early music scoring articles with Dorico:

    https://www.scoringnotes.com/tutorials/early-music-in-dorico-is-more-than-meets-the-eye/

    https://www.scoringnotes.com/tutorials/creating-editorial-marks-with-dorico/

    https://www.scoringnotes.com/tutorials/adventures-in-early-music-with-dorico-volume-2/

    in which is a download link to a useful Dorico project file of a Lassus Magnificat with incipit, ambitus, plainchant neume notehead set, etc.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Richard Mix JT_Fields ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,885
    I’m late to the party, but I’m notorious for advocating for Dorico in these environs. It is the only program that truly supports open meter. You can make beautiful chant transcriptions.

    See these links for some examples of stuff I’ve done:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6080596f62a0455c6b40e46b/t/624de2f8af34b75c1ce56ace/1649271544674/Palm+Sunday+Processional+Chants.pdf

    https://psallitedomino.com/blog/free-simple-setting-de-profundis-2023

    You can also see the second page of this pdf to see how I’ve placed the mass xviii sanctus and Agnus Dei in our confirmation worship aid. Again—all done in Dorico.
    Confirmation 4-21-2024 (Sunday of Eastertide).pdf
    570K
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