Sicut cervus in the liturgy
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,186
    It seems that Palestrina’s Sicut Cervus does not contain all the exact words, neither in the traditional Roman rite nor in the Novus rite, for any of the places where Psalm 41(42) is proper.

    So, if you have used or would use Palestrina’s motet as a liturgical proper, what have you done or would you do?

    Is v3. Fuerunt mihi just omitted, when sung? Are the other verses of Ps 43(42) (as always in the Novus rite), omitted? Or perhaps chanted to a psalm tone?

    And what was done in the past? I find that Fuerunt mihi is in a Missal contemporary with Palestrina himself. Was there a setting of the last verse, now lost?
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,021
    .
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    The secunda pars, Sitivit anima mea, has vv 2-3. E.g.:

    https://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/c/c7/Palestrina_Sicut_cervus.pdf

    https://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/f/fb/Sicut_cervus.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srz8fCP7NnI
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • liampmcdonough
    Posts: 297
    We sing the Palestrina, prima pars, at the tract which opens the baptismal liturgy following the gospel, and then sing the other verses to psalm tone, and then repeat prima pars again.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn LauraKaz CHGiffen irishtenor
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    As far as I understand this piece was composed by Palestrina, for the Liturgy ie the procession to the Baptismal font. For some reason he set the Vulgate text of the psalm not the text of the psalm as in the Missale Romanum / Graduale Romanum. Of course the Missale / Graduale does not usually use the Vulgate texts of the psalms, more modern Mass propers have the Bea psalter text!

    I did search for a Missal / Graduale with the Vulgate text but did not find one.

    We sing the Palestrina as part of the Vigil in full with the Sitivit v.2 and 3. I have not found anyone that is upset that the text is slightly different. We also sing Isaac settings and those texts also have minor differences to the modern Roman books.

    I suspect that in the past no one worried about the differences in texts between different editions of the Missal / Gradual.
    Thanked by 3MatthewRoth CHGiffen irishtenor
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    I am under the impression that it was used in the papal chapel for the liturgy of Holy Saturday. That's good enough for me (though chanting the other verses or using the Secunda Pars sounds like a solid plan)
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • CGM
    Posts: 697
    In the Novus Ordo it can be used on the Easter Vigil as the Responsory following the seventh lesson. I once had a pastor who insisted on that, regardless of what settings were used for the six previous Responsories.
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,021
    I very nearly replied with what is above.

    I edited to a '.' when I thought what he meant was the slight textual differences within the verses.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,186
    I would say that the Novus rite rubrics do not allow SC at its Easter Vigil. If a pastor insists on it, well, he does him; but SC neither responsorial nor in directum and it hasn't the right words.

    I think it's perfectly useable in the Roman rite when its text (from the Psalterium Romanum, not the Vulgate) has been preserved in the Missal: for its vigils of Easter and Pentecost.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We have had a similar discussion before, The two texts are bellow with differences in bold.

    Palestrina text, from CPDL
    Sicut cervus desiderat ad fontes aquarum, ita desiderat anima mea ad Te, Deus.
    v. 2 Sitivit anima mea ad Deum fortem, vivum; quando veniam et apparebo ante faciem Dei?
    v 3 Fuerunt mihi lacrimae meae panes die ac nocte, dum dicitur mihi quotidie: Ubi est Deus tuus?
    This seems to be the Clementine Vulgate Ps 41

    Text from the
    Graduale Romanum 1924
    Sicut cervus desiderat ad fontes aquarum, ita desiderat anima mea ad te, Deus.
    v. 2 Sitivit anima mea ad Deum vivum: quando veniam et apparebo ante faciem Dei mei?
    v. 3 Fuerunt mihi lacrymae meae panes die ac nocte, dum dicitur mihi per singulos dies: Ubi est Deus tuus?
    This text does not match either text here, CPDL is the text of Psalterium Romanum correct? (will check later work calls)
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