I Love Vanilla Liturgies
  • I love vanilla liturgies!

    Just give me a Graduale or an Antiphonale.

    Less speaking. More singing!

    Sing the Our Father.

    Sing the Creed.

    Sing the dialogues.

    Sing the propers.

    Sing the readings!

    This music is complete. It's beautiful. It's in the book.

    Toss the hymns. Toss the anthems. Toss the motets. Toss the music director's pet projects.

    Go to a town, and they are singing their hearts out to hallmark-channel-wannabe hymns.

    But do the people in the town sing the liturgy?

    Go to a city, and they are singing their hearts out to Buxtehude's 10th variation on Thaxted.

    But do the people in the city sing the liturgy?

    Why does everyone complicate it so much?

    I love vanilla liturgies!
  • There is something very special about fully sung Mass with nothing but chant, not even accompaniment.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Go to a monastery and - maybe - they are singing vanilla liturgies.
  • What is a “vanilla” liturgy?

    I’d also be happy if Thaxted disappeared from Catholic hymnals. Unless Holst used a time machine, Buxtehude would have had to climb out of the grave to write a variation on it.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 256
    The "vanilla" liturgy proposed by the original poster is, sadly, not a vanilla liturgy in most of the U.S. Many, especially those of a certain generation, would react if the spice were horseradish.
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • I love unaccompanied chant. I also love hymns. I also love Thaxted. I also love organ.

    So what?
  • If all the OP were saying was:

    This music is complete. It's beautiful. It's in the book.


    then he would be standing on good ground, since St. Pius X agrees,

    The ancient traditional Gregorian Chant must, therefore, in a large measure be restored to the functions of public worship, and the fact must be accepted by all that an ecclesiastical function loses none of its solemnity when accompanied by this music [i.e. Gregorian Chant] alone.


    or indeed, if the OP also said:

    Less speaking. More singing!
    ,

    Then we could point to Paragraph 113 of Sacrosanctum Concilium:

    Liturgical worship is given a more noble form when the divine offices are celebrated solemnly in song, with the assistance of sacred ministers and the active participation of the people.


    But I find it harder to square:

    Toss the hymns. Toss the anthems. Toss the motets.


    With the attitude that St. Pius X tells me I should take towards other forms of music in the liturgy:

    The Church has always recognized and favored the progress of the arts, admitting to the service of religion everything good and beautiful discovered by genius in the course of ages — always, however, with due regard to the liturgical laws. Consequently modern music is also admitted to the Church, since it, too, furnishes compositions of such excellence, sobriety and gravity, that they are in no way unworthy of the liturgical functions.


    Or, indeed, the understanding of my vocation as a Catholic organist and composer which paragraphs 120-121 of Vatican II's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy enjoin me to embrace:

    In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man's mind to God and to higher things.

    Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures.


    The OP writes of what I do as a Catholic choirmaster (programming hymns, motets, pet projects, etc...):

    Why does everyone complicate it so much?


    But what I do when I do those things is not complicating things.

    It is sharing the priorities and vision of the Church as expressed over a century of Magisterium.

    Priorities both grounded in the deepest part of our musical heritage, the Gregorian Chant, but which are rounded out by an openness to beauty and a recognition of the riches the Church possesses in centuries of music written for Her.

    Put another way:

    Liturgy which is...

    (1) primarily sung,

    (2) with a beating heart of plainchant that is a unifying musical fabric,
    on the voices of the choir for what is proper to them,
    and in the hands and on the lips of the whole people of God,

    (3) beautified and supported by the pious playing of the organ
    at appropriate times and seasons, and

    (4) enriched by the fruits of the progress of the arts across centuries,
    in particular the flower of the polyphonic school,

    (5) but without excluding the music of later times
    and of our own day which exhibit due artistry and are suitable,

    (6) embracing fruits of a progress which is recognized and promoted by the Church,
    and to which those with the requisite gifts should take it,
    as their vocation, to contribute,

    (7) respecting, promoting, and tying the devotion of the people
    to its source and goal, the sacred liturgy,
    through the judicious use of vernacular hymnody.

    ...that is simplicity itself.

    On the other hand,

    Setting yourself up to explain to a man of simple and deep faith why you will not suffer him to sing "Hail, Holy Queen" after a feast day Mass of Our Lady,

    or to your singers why Palestrina's Alma redemptoris is insufficiently "vanilla" for inclusion in your parish liturgy,

    in spite of its beauty, dignity, and accessibility without real risk of screwing it up,

    and despite Palestrina himself & his art being expressly singled out for commendation by the highest authority in the Church across multiple pontificates...

    that is complicating things.

    If you don't believe me,

    try it.
  • Nihil, thank you!!! So well said!!!!!
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • The vanilla liturgy, while sufficient, is also a foundation upon which to build. Master it, and subsequent musical additions are put on solid footing. Buxtehude's Thaxten-variationen is a wonderful set of compositions. And for sure they can enhance the Mass. But in my experience such things nearly always REPLACE the Mass. Sure, "Hail, Holy Queen" is a nice devotional addition. But if we're singing this or Palestrina, while leaving such as the creed, the propers, and the dialogues unsung, I think the musical priorities are in need of reform. I desperately thirst for the liturgical basics. I love vanilla liturgy! But church musicians are too busy showcasing liturgical additions, at the expense of the liturgy itself.

    Question for every music director of every Mass I've ever attended: Why do you all spend BY FAR the bulk of your time and energy on music that is accessory to the Mass, while the Mass itself is musically neglected?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Well put avscvita
  • ...and the dialogues unsung...


    Nothing is stranger than beautiful, complex music juxtaposed with an entirely spoken Mass. It's like wearing a tuxedo with flip-flops.
  • But if we're singing this or Palestrina, while leaving such as the creed, the propers, and the dialogues unsung, I think the musical priorities are in need of reform. I desperately thirst for the liturgical basics. I love vanilla liturgy! But church musicians are too busy showcasing liturgical additions, at the expense of the liturgy itself.


    Propers have always been a priority with me and with so very many here.

    Whether dialogues and Credo are sung, on the other hand, however much one may advocate for them, is usually beyond the music director's pay grade, and entirely in the celebrant's control. Usually, they don't want to, nor can they be wrangled to care.

    Even a really excellent young priest for whose first Mass I played, which included Proper, plainsong, sung dialogues, etc... felt very strongly about a spoken Credo. These things... what can I do?

    So whilst I don't question the validity, in some ways, of your basic point, I do question your target audience -- shouldn't this be addressed to parish priests, not the musicians powerless to command their pastors to sing their parts, or to suffer the Credo to be sung?

    But there is one more consideration --

    In the olden days, Low Mass could, and often did, have music.

    That music was not allowed to be the Proper or Ordinary, nor was the priest allowed to sing his prayers.

    That music was hymns and devotional music, and organ music.

    So it was a spoken Mass. With music. That was not the native liturgical music of the Mass. Sound familiar?

    It was also the way most Catholics stateside and in many places besides experienced Mass most of the time. Often, the music was not even done well. Now it must sound very familiar.

    The upshot of this experience was that the reform didn't make sung liturgy de facto normative for the whole Church. It made it normal to graft some High Mass elements -- the Ordinary, a nice motet (in the right places), some Propers here and there, the sung responses between the Readings -- onto the Low Mass with music we had already been doing.

    So it's a little topsy-turvy from the OP's original point. What happened, from a historical perspective, is not that all this "extra" stuff crept in and displaced the High Mass stuff. It's that all the High Mass elements have been stuffed into basically a Low Mass with hymns, and it can seem bloated.

    Our seminary is very good at giving seminarians a vanilla experience of liturgy. Hopefully it starts to trickle downward.

    Because, I agree with the idea that, while occasionally a Low Mass with ambitious music can be done well and beautifully,

    it's only atop a heap of creamy vanilla ice cream that whipped cream and hot fudge and a cherry make sense together.
  • Another brief thought -- I had exactly this conversation with a parishioner recently...

    It is *because of* the fabric of the chanted Proper and dialogues that Motets etc we do don't feel out of place or out of proportion. The chant makes everything at home.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen hilluminar
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I know my very frank opinion may get rolling eyeballs but the truth must continually be spoken plainly by someone so here it is.

    You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.

    Look at the latest post by MarkB.

    As long as the NO is the foundation of liturgical praxis, authentic music will suffer its fate. Priests will not be trained in the tradition of priestly responsibilities in learning the “highest art” of our Roman tradition which is primal to their vocation. Musicians and laity will continue their laissez-faire in choosing banal selections at their own whim. People will continue to abandon the Kumbayas, churches will close, and the world and modernism will ultimately destroy religion which is the face of the church, the face of Christ disfigured. RIP.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw rich_enough
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    Interestingly enough, after the closures of churches for a half a year, the only two churches around here that have recovered fully are the TLM church (which has probably more than double in attendance since then) and mine (which has increased slightly). My church is the one that is known as the one to attend for a reverent liturgy if you can't get to the TLM.

    The rest? They lost a lot of people (and donations) and haven't recovered.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw LauraKaz
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    I too love vanilla Masses. When aged 11 in1949 I was taught chant for the school Mass, which was our monks conventual Mass, I first experienced Mass as something in which I participated rather than merely attended. This participation was further enhanced when I became a regular server of one of the weekday Low Masses at a side altar. Sunday Mass, whether Solemn or Low, remained just a chore. Looking back I can see that in the 1570 Solemn Mass the music, even if chant but particularly polyphony, is not part of the sacred action. The sacred action in the 1570 is exclusive to the priest, in 1949 even the deacon singing the Gospel was a duplication of the priest's silent reading. At the time I was simply aware that if the choir sang the Creed, the priest sat down and put his hat on, which always puzzled me.
    Now GIRM§37 points to music which is a rite and other music (Entrance ...) which is accompaniment. Last time I heard a polyphonic Ordinary liturgically (as opposed to a concert) it was Mozart's Spatzenmesse and - I went to another, cantor+congregation with Ordinary Latin chant, Mass later in the day. Musically the Mozart was fun, but I do not want drums and trumpets at Mass.

  • the music...is not part of the sacred action.


    That's a rather bold claim. Considering there are rubrics governing specifics about the way music is done in the '62, this hardly seems accurate.

    Necessitating that everything stop while the ordinaries are sung awkwardly disrupts the natural flow of the liturgy.

    do not want...trumpets at Mass


    Really??? Not every Sunday, but surely on occasion??
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Vanilla. So liturgies with a faint hint of the holidays, tea and cakes on the front and a soft ice cream on the pier?
    Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    [Edited] Once SCR had been established to regulate the liturgy, they made rules, it's what bureaucrats do, usually badly. Fortescue's private comments are pretty pungent.

    Necessitating that everything stop while the ordinaries are sung awkwardly disrupts the natural flow of the liturgy.
    OTOH
    There was something to reform and to rediscover. ...; the priest singing in the traditional melodies the Kyrie, the Gloria, the creed with the faithful; these are so many good reforms that give back to that part of the Mass its true finality.
    Abp. M Lefebvre; Itinéraires vol 95 July-August 1965
    However I concede trumpets on certain occasions :-)
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    I would be interested to see any evidence of the duplication by the celebrant of parts proper to choir or other ministers in diocesan uses before 1570.
  • I always assumed that practice developed with the integral Missals printed for Low Mass being used at Sung Masses, and then was codified.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    Nihil - yes that was my supposition too. But sparked by a remark of Peckler's that the 1570 did not reflect the Solemn Mass of any preceding missal, even that of Rome, I checked a couple of missals avaiable online and noted that this duplication by the celebrant seemed to be absent. I have had eye problems which made reading old texts even more difficult than usual, but after laser treatment I should try again. I tried challenging Fr Z to point me to pre1570 examples, after he had attached sacramental significance to the practice, but have received no reply, and not even publishing of my comment.
    Given that the 1570 rubrics pay scant regard to either of the two demands of Trent, general communion from the elements consecrated at that Mass & frequent expounding of the texts to the congregation, I now consider the claims of Pius V to continuity, conformity to a Council, and deep historical research to be no better/worse founded than those of Paul VI.