“Not another Church but a different Church…” oooooooooookkkkaaaaay…
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    How blatant can we be?

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-10/pope-francis-discourse-moment-reflection-eve-inauguration-synod.html

    Moribund?

    “There is no need to create another Church, but to create a different Church,” the Pope said citing Dominican priest Father Yves Marie-Joseph Congar. “For a ‘different Church’, the Pope urged all to invoke the Holy Spirit with greater fervour and frequency and humbly listen to Him.”


    I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel.

    Which is not another: only there are some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

    As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

    For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

    For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.

    For neither did I receive it of man: nor did I learn it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Galatians 1:6-12
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores tomjaw
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Yes.
    I don't care anymore.
    The less I hear about the Holy Father, the stronger my faith is, and the happier I am. Because of him, I'm losing my gig in a couple of months, and will need to find another way to praise my Lord in the liturgy. God will fix this all, eventually; no need to obsess over the unpleasant details.
    Thanked by 4francis LauraKaz ServiamScores tomjaw
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 79
    Synodality is euphemism for undermining the primacy of the pope.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Jeffrey… I have been obsessing over the details since 1990, almost half of my life, and Our Lady has been obsessing over the details since 1847 (well that’s as far as earth is concerned), but very few hear the message. Our Lady is STILL obsessing over the details and you can find it in her later apparitions, confirming the same message over and over and over, but the poor excuse of not needing to listen to any “private revelations” is always used to refute what is most likely a message given to us directly from heaven itself… the same message, over and over and over.
    And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment.

    And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having on a wedding garment? But he was silent.

    Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Oh, the very poor humans. We are lost in our own thinking and we deceive ourselves at every foolish turn.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores tomjaw
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 77
    The more I hear about the synod, the more I am preoccupied with dread. Fortunately, I have so much work to do that I have no time for most of the news cycle. I am sure that I would be much less sane otherwise.
    Thanked by 4ServiamScores CHGiffen tomjaw francis
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    "Synodality is euphemism for undermining the primacy of the pope. "
    Really? This pope?
    President Lincoln called a meeting of his cabinet to get their opinion on whether he should sign the Emancipation Act. I believe he summed up something like "Well gentlemen we have eight NOES and one AYE, the AYES have it"
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 284
    Sing a new church into being…

    Sorry, couldn’t resist. Now that’s going to be stuck in my head all day.
    Thanked by 2francis tomjaw
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    Don’t we all want “a different church” in one way or another? I’d like one that sings the propers, that isn’t haunted by abuse, that treats its employees better, that’s growing everywhere and shrinking nowhere, isn’t in bed with politicians, beats everyone else at caring for the poor and homeless, etc. etc.
    Thanked by 5DavidOLGC FSSPmusic tomjaw CharlesW LauraKaz
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,886
    Don’t we all want “a different church” in one way or another?
    "Different" only in the sense that I want the church to actually be what She's supposed to be, rather than what we pitiful humans have a tendency of warping Her into.
    Thanked by 4DavidOLGC a_f_hawkins tomjaw LauraKaz
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Don’t we all want “a different church” in one way or another? I’d like one that sings the propers, that isn’t haunted by abuse, that treats its employees better, that’s growing everywhere and shrinking nowhere, isn’t in bed with politicians, beats everyone else at caring for the poor and homeless, etc. etc.
    unless you work in a pre VII parish, some of those will always be the status quo.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    the pre_VII parish "pay up, pray up, and shut up"
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    a_f

    We welcome you with your empty pockets, indeed to pray, and do join our choir!
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • Anna_BendiksenAnna_Bendiksen
    Posts: 244
    .
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    the pre_VII parish "pay up, pray up, and shut up"


    It would be nice if someone could document this slander with more than one or two examples.

    Go ahead. Do so.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw rich_enough
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I guess being Byzantine I am used to a different church to begin with. I see some parishes of other rites, however, and wonder how long people are going to fund them. I wouldn't.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    The erroneous thinking of modernism in the Catholic Church

    https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/tridentine-and-proud

    Is this an apt description of what is unfolding before us?
    Many twentieth century theologians rejected the scholastics in favor of ambiguity, emotion, and the subjective. For them it was not a matter of preferring one “presentational format” to another. They rejected as corruption what faithful Catholics had always seen as perfection.
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 79
    “Pray, pay, and shut up” is a trope that is frequently imputed to traditionally minded clergy or parishes. After 25 years of experience working with progressive and theologically liberal clergy in charge of large urban parishes, I can say that that mindset of obedience to an ideology cuts both ways.
    Thanked by 4ServiamScores tomjaw LauraKaz dad29
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    I guess we need an alternative phrase… maybe

    Play ‘Nice’, pay the price and screw up.
    (Or cover up?)

    Diapason…. We’ve all been stuck on this merry-go-round just like you for decades. It’s high time we all get off. Most of the Catholic world has already abandoned it anyway. We can’t close our parishes and schools fast enough to keep ahead of the curve.

    Matthew 7:6

    https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/08/24/a-smaller-church/

    when a bishop might be thought smart if he made fun of dogmas and even insinuated that the existence of God was by no means certain . . .
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