Piano to Organ- need tips
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    I'm a pianist. I have had a few years of organ lessons is all.
    I can play 4 part hymnody and chant on the organ mainly as written, but I struggle with arranging piano songs for organ.
    I'm playing a funeral Wednesday and the family has asked for "as much organ as possible."
    I've got the psalm, gospel acclamation, and the communion hymn prepped for organ.
    I'd like to play the requested hymn "Make Me a Channel of Your Peace" on the organ as well.
    The other songs are "Precious Lord, Take My Hand" and "On Eagle's Wings."

    FWIW, Please not too much grousing on the song choices. I am happy to play them all because this family has been through the wringer losing two sons (in their 30s) in two years.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Polska Piano,

    I won't grouse about the choice of songs. I will point out, though, that "Make me a channel of your peace" works very poorly in the transition: it can either be faithful to the original musical ideas or be made to work on the organ, but not both.
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  • GerardH
    Posts: 411
    For hymns with arpeggiated piano accompaniment, my usual solution is to sustain the bass note of each arpeggio in the pedal, and often to hold onto one or two (but not all) notes in the chord. Picking out the melody in the right hand with a softer accompaniment in the left can be effective.

    I won't say it's the best solution, but it works for me.
    Thanked by 1PolskaPiano
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have found that "On Beagle's Wings" can not be easily played as written in the GIA hymnal I used. The chorus was ok but I had to chord those arpeggios on the verses on the "yoo hoo" song - you who dwell... You could always waltz "Make Me a Channel..." but I am kidding on that. I haven't played that in some time but it seems I had to chord the left hand on it, too. Of course, play the root of the chord on the pedal.
    Thanked by 1PolskaPiano
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,025
    If you can improvise from lead sheets/guitar music, then play the melody with your right hand while sustaining the printed guitar chords with your left hand, sometimes walking the bass note up or down as needed between chord transitions for a more pleasing, smoother musical sound. Often you can use 16' couplers to add more of a fuller, bass sound without having to play the pedals.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Just use block chords on the beat where appropriate. I would not arppegiate anything.
    Thanked by 4CharlesW PolskaPiano JonLaird cesarfranck
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    Make me a channel of your peas transitions reasonably well, imho. You just have to use chords with occasional arpeggiation in the alto and tenor parts to keep a sense of time.

    Buzzard’s wings is a pain and I usually just play it on piano when I am forced to play it at all. Things like the introduction just sound terrible on the organ.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW PolskaPiano
  • davido
    Posts: 874
    There is an organ arrangement of Eagles Wings in the Ignatius Pew Missal accompaniment book. Idiomatic to the instrument, features the vocal melody in the soprano most of the time.
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  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    This gives me a direction. It was very helpful. Thank you!
    (Also agreed that Eagle's Wings is very much so NOT an organ piece.)
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    All your suggestions were helpful (I printed them out!) but Mark, using the Guitar book as a lead sheet was fantastic way to break free of the piano composition and starting fresh. Thanks so much! I am confident playing the piece for the funeral tomorrow.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • lmassery
    Posts: 404
    This resource is super helpful for pianists learnin organ
    https://organistsonline.org/hymns/
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores StimsonInRehab
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    When I first started playing the organ, I always found reading a lead sheet was better than trying to analyze and re-arrange the piano score at sight. I always kept a set of guitar books on the organ for that purpose.

    The other option is to simply have the melody only version and improvise your own harmonies. Basically, your job is to accompany the melody of the singing congregation or cantor, not to slavishly play the arrangement found the keyboard accompaniment books, which are often written for piano. Even then, they aren't necessarily good arrangements.

    Classically trained musicians often fall into the trap of slavishly following the written score. It's not Chopin.

    The other big advantage of using the guitar books (melody and chords) is fewer page turns!
    Thanked by 3StimsonInRehab LauraKaz cesarfranck
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Our accompaniment hymnal had the chord symbols written above the staff. I just played from those chord symbols with my left hand and played the melody with my right. No one was ever the wiser and it turned out fine.
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 72
    Thank you all that have mentioned using a lead sheet and either reading the chords or improvising your own harmonies, as I tend to use this method very often, having much more professional experience as a guitar or bass player, often in jazz situations.

    Now I don't feel like I'm "cheating" so much.

    "they aren't necessarily good arrangements"

    So it's not just my imagination that a lot of the piano and organ parts are not always of the best quality !

    Thanked by 2CharlesW Carol
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    So it's not just my imagination that a lot of the piano and organ parts are not always of the best quality!
    Oh heaven's no! I do worship aid every week, drawing on public domain hymns and I make my own arrangements of almost everything I play. There are oodles of options from various hymnals on hymnary.com, but many arrangements (especially if they stem from new-ish hymnals) always leave something to be desired. A clunky harmony here or there, weird voice leading, etc. (And, frankly, I don't think that church music should be a perfectly uniform monolith.)
    Thanked by 2DavidOLGC cesarfranck
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 72
    I appreciate your comment: "clunky harmony here or there, weird voice leading"
    My musical training was in Theory and Composition and I was surprised how many poorly written accompaniments parts I have found, stuff that wouldn't pass an undergraduate class writing assignment.



    Thanked by 6Chris Garton-Zavesky CharlesW ServiamScores LauraKaz francis Carol
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    Charles, same here. Still do it for the most part. It's a good way to start and pick up more as you go.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW DavidOLGC
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    If you are working off just the melody, you DO need a good ear for harmony. A long time ago we were at Mass and it was the new organist's first week on the job. OF Mass with closing hymn (song really) and it was Let There Be Peace on Earth. He got to "...live each moment in peace eternally..." in the second to the last line and didn't play that schmaltzy augmented chord. My husband looked at me and said, "That's all I need to hear."
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    What kills me about "peas on earth" is the folks who have been adamant that St. Francis had anything to do with those lyrics. They came from a holy card around World War I.
    Thanked by 2DavidOLGC ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    Re: having an ear

    We all had a lovely chuckle in grad school during our studio class, when a rather doofy young lad (who earned the monicker ‘freshman’ that stuck well into his senior year) decided that for his hymn reharmonization that week, he would change the mode of a major hymn to minor. Wasn’t that a trip! We all cackled and he was earnestly perplexed until the professor put a stop to it and told him in no uncertain terms that you do not change major/minor—altering the melody to match! during a hymn when people are singing. It’s one thing to change the underlying chords… but you don’t change the melody. Lol.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW DavidOLGC
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Serviam,

    I have to laugh. I did something similar, on purpose, when I was asked to play music for a "reconciliation service" in a parish, but no one was trying to sing to it. I put Amazing Grace in a minor key, and immeasurably improved it.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Wonder if minor would improve Eagle's Wings?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    If you compare the hymn tune LLANGOFFAN with the tune LLANFYLLIN, you'll probably notice straightaway that the second tune (major) is nothing more than the first tune (minor) converted essentially note for note into a major key melody. Usually, I see the tunes in G minor and G major, respectively.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 72
    "Wonder if minor would improve Eagle's Wings?"

    I doubt that it would - between the chord changes and choice of melody notes, in either major or minor, it's not a great piece of music...but that's just my opinion.

    Why is it so popular?
    Thanked by 3Carol CharlesW LauraKaz
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    I think Eagle's Wings is so popular because the lyric of the chorus feel very reassuring. The lyrics don't speak of repentance or sin. They are all about what God can do for you. Most people care much more about lyrics than melody.
    Thanked by 3DavidOLGC CharlesW LauraKaz
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    To be clear: I have no problem with changing the mode when improvising, doing a set of variations, etc. And I also don’t have a problem with changing the mode of the underlying harmonic structure for text painting. You just can’t change the melody while people are singing!
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Continuing on with major versus minor, I'm guilty(?) of composing two hymn tunes for which the melodies are, note for note the same, except for being major and minor (as in the case of the Welsh tunes cited above). The tunes, BEAUDRY (D major) and MORGAN (D minor) are the maiden names of my wife's mother and my mother, respectively.

    Giffen-Beaudry (87. 87. 87).pdf
    57K
    Giffen-Beaudry (87. 87. 87)-192kbps.mp3
    4M
    Giffen-Morgan (87. 87. 87).pdf
    70K
    Giffen-Morgan (87. 87. 87).mp3
    5M
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I like both of them.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Why is it so popular?


    I have also wondered about that. I think it is saccharine like an Oprah moment. All feeling and not requiring much thought. Pretty well sums up our culture, seems to me.
    Thanked by 4DavidOLGC francis LauraKaz Carol
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    most of the music that comes out of the big three are amateurish in their musical theory.
    Thanked by 4CharlesW CHGiffen LauraKaz Carol
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Francis,

    Must you insult amateurs so?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    OK I don’t think it’s an insult. It’s just a fact.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    It may be a fact (he said, smiling) but to treat what comes from the big three as worthy of amateurs surely isn't fair to amateurs!
    Thanked by 1Carol
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