How to decide where the Ictus goes, when chant rules conflict?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    In this morning's Second Alleluia, there appears to be a conflict -- there is in my mind, anyway -- among chant rules for locating the ictus. I hope I'm clear enough in my explanation so that specialists and non-specialists alike can understand the problem I encountered, and someone (perhaps several) can give me helpful guidance which is as widely applicable as possible.

    A podatus (leaping a 5th) is followed by a clivis, stepping down, and the podatus and clivis share a pitch, which should make a pressus. No new syllables are involved.

    According to the rules about the podatus, the first note (re, in this case) should receive the ictus.
    According to the rule about the pressus, the first of the two counts of the pressus should receive the ictus.

    These two rules tell us that the second note of the podatus and the first note of the podatus should receive the ictus, which is impossible.

    My solution was to treat the first note of the podatus as the 3rd pulse of the previous group, and give the second note of the podatus the ictus.

    Is that correct, or is it at least a reasonable mistake?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    observation… for me it has been close to 20 years of trying to make sense of the Solesmes method… tis an enigma. Jeff at CCW does a lot of digging… he might be of help… or, might also open the pandora box.
    Thanked by 2Chris Garton-Zavesky FSSPmusic
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,887
    The ictus goes in the bin. (Purple/not purple)
    Thanked by 2Chris Garton-Zavesky CHGiffen
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    The rule about the beginning of a doubled or tripled note takes precedence over the rule about the first note of a group; your solution is correct. Though made up, the rules are hierarchical and there is no conflict or ambiguity in this particular chant.
    Thanked by 2Chris Garton-Zavesky CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Sounds fishy to me. No ... wait. I thought you said ichthys, and it should go into the creel, not the bin.
    Thanked by 2Chris Garton-Zavesky tomjaw
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Patrick,

    Thank you for the clarity and charity of your answer.

    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Patrick,

    Thank you for the clarity and charity of your answer.
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