All Glory Laud and Honour: Where do you end?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 392
    It seems both musically and textually weird to end it on the last verse rather than the chorus, yet the double bar line in placed at the end of the verse. Traditionally, the chant from the Liber has you returning to the antiphon for the end. When we would sing it in procession outside at the Traditional Latin Mass, we stopped singing it when we got the glare from the priest at the doors even if mid verse.

    Curious if anyone ends it on the chorus instead of the verse?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    we stopped singing it when we got the glare from the priest
    suggests a colossal lack of communication when it should have happened!

    Such a hymn ends with the "chorus".
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    What edition of the Liber do you use? I checked reprints of both 1950s and 1960s editions and both indicate that "Gloria laus..." is repeated after each stanza. I don't recommend stopping anything mid-verse unless there's some sort of real emergency or you suddenly realize you're singing the wrong thing. The responsory Ingrediente is sung when the procession enters the church.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 392
    suggests a colossal lack of communication when it should have happened!

    We did communicate with the priest beforehand. We were told to stop singing once everyone was outside, which we did. He changed his mind on a whim.

    There was so much colossal lack of communication with that priest. He also decided the day of the transferred feast of Corpus Christi, that since he observed it on Thursday and lots of people showed up, that he was going to do the regular Sunday Mass instead. Nothing like sight singing the Mass propers on Sunday.

    I became the eyes and the ears of that parish for our choir trying to anticipate the lack of communication.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,724
    That’s not ok… yikes.


    As for the OP’s question, we always end with the chorus.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Over the decades: always always end with the chorus.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    I prefer to end with the chorus, when it works that way. But we do an inside procession, and we end when they turn into the center aisle, and start the Ingrediente. We also never got to the 2nd Pueri Hebraeorum.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 986
    OCP resources don't actually indicate that the refrain is a refrain! Which is very silly indeed. When I was constrained to use their books, I would use a d e l i b e r a t e r i t a r d a n d o to make it obvious that, although there was no double bar, I was about to end after "sweet Hosannas bring" whether they liked it or not.

    I was spicy this year at my new parish, and used the original rhythmic chorale tune, with the original melody (do-sol-sol-la-ti-do-do, mi-re-do-la-ti-do), printed in the service folder, instead of the ubiquitous isometric setting.

    I suppose now that I hold a degree from Concordia, it is my duty to evangelize the bouncy versions of these old tunes.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores chonak
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Nihil,

    I've never seen the tune as you've ended the phrase. Live and learn, I guess.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 986
    Now you have!
    Valet_will_ich_dir_geben_(Melodie_1614).jpg
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    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic CHGiffen
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 217
    The last phrase is quite different! I played for Missouri Synod Lutherans years ago and had forgotten about this one.
    imageSource

    I'll have to check Gotteslob. German Catholics tend to be more conservative than their Lutheran counterparts about preserving the rhythmic chorale melodies.
    Valet.jpg
    1581 x 2350 - 1M
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 217
    They also set Israel correctly as two syllables instead of three according to the poetic meter, which most modern hymnals ignore.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,724
    Nihil, I love the custos in that manuscript. They are charming (and I wish they were a thing in modern music!)
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    " . . . which most modern hymnals ignore."

    And which most congregations will also ignore even if the music is front of them. Cf. Holy God We Praise Thy Name; also cf. King Canute and tides.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 217
    Is rye ale... And that "rye" sometimes even finds its way into Latin pronunciation :(
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Our problem is always where to begin (and see this for a congregation jumping the gun yesterday, as well as a stunning Offertory anthem by Judith Weir). GIA, for what it's worth, places the final double bar at "sweet hosannas ring", as one ought to expect.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • rvisser
    Posts: 45
    @ Nihil - your singers didn't remember this. I asked numerous cantors and choir members where they end for that song and they all told me at the end of the verse. Ugh. So that's what I did
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    The hymn begins with the refrain; then the refrain follows every stanza, including the last one.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    To be clear, it's Gloria laus et honor and its paraphrases that ought to end with a refrain, as opposed to other hymns sung to VALET WILL ICH DIR GEBEN aka ST THEODOLPH.

    I assumed that an April 1 edit had added this verse to Wikipedia, before I checked out the reference:
    Be Thou, O Lord, the Rider,
    ⁠And we the little ass;
    That to God's Holy City
    ⁠Together we may pass.
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 72
    We had this same discussion last week.

    In our small church the celebrant only needed a chorus and a verse to process from the back of the church where he blessed the palms and read the first gospel.

    Our cantor and I would have liked to finish at the chorus...we needed to end where FSSPmusic 's version ended. we were ready either way.

    Thanks for all your opinions.
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