Per annum: how NOT to use Orbis Factor for 23 weeks?
  • Only Mass XI, Orbis Factor, has the notation "Sundays per annum". Rather than use it for 23 weeks, how do others break up the time after Pentecost?

    For my purposes, assume that feasts such as Corpus Christi, the Sacred Heart, the Assumption, our Patronal Feast (August 22nd) and All Saints get non-Sunday treatment, being not Sundays.

    Also for my purposes, assume that polyphonic Masses are not possible. (They are, but they're not the problem I'm trying to solve).

    Specifically, which chant Ordinaries do you use, and when do you switch between them?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,714
    Use Mass XIV (in octaves) for all the Sundays that fall in former Octaves.
    Thanked by 1liampmcdonough
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,966
    In both the preconciliar//postconciliar calendars, every Sunday ranks *at least* as a second class feast//feast of the Lord. In light of that, if one wishes adhere to the stated designations for Mass settings, it would seem reasonable that Masses IV through VIII could also be used in addition to Mass XI, as they are not expressly limited to feasts *not* falling on Sundays.
  • Liam,

    An excellent point. Do you have a thoughtful preference for one of those, over the others?

    Tom,

    You're suggesting a "pop up" version of the division: Corpus Christi and Sacred Heart aren't on Sundays, but the Sunday in each Octave would be Mass XIV, if I understand what you've proposed. After those feasts, then the Sunday in the octave of Ss Peter and Paul, and the Sunday in the octave of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist would earn Mass XIV, and so on? On other Sundays, Mass XI would be the default option?
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 968
    In the Netherlands we use VIII a lot as an alternative; it's standard repertoire during Ordinary Time. Also, a 'Missa Simpex' like Kyrie XVI, Gloria XV, Sanctus X and Agnus Dei ad libitum II is being promoted by the Vereniging voor Latijnse Liturgie.
    Thanked by 1NihilNominis
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,714
    @CGZ Yes, also including the Dedication and Titular of the Cathedral, and the dedication of the Church and Titular. Mass XI is our default... We also sing Polyphonic settings around once a month. Marian feasts and octaves have Mass IX
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,966
    Chris

    It's been a decade since I active in the saddle of choral practice, so I don't have a preference, and I was never in a position to be able to pull this kind of thing off myself (I was never a DM and am not a keyboardist): I would encourage those who have the ability to familiarize their congregations with more settings to do so according to their sense of congregational abilities to build repertoire - maybe one or two of them per year? Do a setting 4-5 weeks in a row, and then reinforce at least once monthly thereafter for a few months?

    One piece of advice: the printed music the congregation is given to learn new music should not be small. While many people will learn by ear, others will seek to reinforce their learning visually. I find some programmers try to squeeze four-lined neumed notation into too-small a space in their programs.
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • davido
    Posts: 886
    4-5 weeks is not enough time to build congregational familiarity. Maybe 4-5 months. congregations like to sing the same setting every week. Maybe 1-3 seasonal rotations, but more than that will confuse and discourage them.
  • Davido,

    Let's take up the question of congregational singing on another thread.
  • Try Kyrie XII (Pater cuncta). One of the least used Kyriale (though a great one).
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,919
    I've known parishes that would progress numerically from XI upwards each month. You knew if you heard Mass XV or XVI that Advent would be coming soon.
  • davido
    Posts: 886
    Chris, it’s music director malpractice to put a new “congregational” setting in front of a choir every 4-5 weeks. Which is what was proposed above and why I addressed it.
    If the ordinary is sung by the schola only, then a faster rotation may be possible, depending on the schola.
  • Davido,

    Hyperbole aside, is the problem the timetable, the "congregational" setting, modern American ideas?

    Surely, for example, you want to mark Lent and Easter off from each other and from what precedes and follows, and Advent from both Christmas and the "per annum" setting?
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 258
    The notations attached to the various mass ordinaries are not law. One can actually use whatever mass ordinary one wants in the Kyriale that one wants. One should ponder the suggestions. But if there is a good reason for using a different setting at a time outside that suggested, nothing is stopping you.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Chas,

    Yes, I know they're not law. They're "governed", as it were, but long customary use, like the postures of the laity used to be at Mass. Now those (second) are governed by law of a sort.