Responsorial Psalm, do the words need to be from the lectionary of the country where Mass is?
  • littleway
    Posts: 5
    Hi,

    I've been told that for the responsorial psalm, one can use the setting of the psalm from any lectionary, for example, if you are singing a responsorial psalm for Mass in a parish in the UK, you can use the responsorial psalm taken from a setting of the lectionary in the US and vice-versa. I've been told that if the psalm is sung and not spoken, you have the choice to use a setting from a lectionary even if its not specifically the one used within the particular diocese. What are your thoughts on this? Is this ok? After all, what is sacred in one diocese, should be sacred in the others too, yes? I need some documents to back me up that this ok and is done routinely with no issue. Thank you for your help :)
    Thanked by 1Lars
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    Since the first English lectionaries, there has been the understanding that singing any version of the responsorial psalm (even metrical) is to be preferred over reciting the responsorial psalm.
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • LarsLars
    Posts: 116
    I too share the same predicament, there are tons of resources from America, including this fine place. Not much from the UK/Ireland. The responsorial psalm on Pentecost from Chabanel Responsorial Psalms:
    Lord, send out your spirit.
    vs UK/Ireland lectionary:
    Send forth your spirit, O Lord.

    I've no idea if its ok to use different translations, however I had no issues with my priest regarding this issue, but then again the norm where I am is to literally sing whatever, a random song as the psalm. So who knows, just wanted to share my experience.
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 543
    ...but then again the norm where I am is to literally sing whatever, a random song as the psalm....


    Germany?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    It's standard practice to use the translation which goes with the music. I don;t have time to quote more than the latest, from DW:The Missal,
    rubrical directory #14 The given texts of the chants may be replaced ... or by musical settings of the Graduale which depend on a different translation of the same text ...
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    Littleway, it is my understanding that technically one should use the translation approved by the local conference of Catholic bishops. That said, it stands to reason that what is officially approved for liturgical use in England should pass muster in the USA and vice versa. (In theory.)

    Fwiw- as the US bishops revise their own translation of the missal in Spanish, the missal from Mexico is currently in formally approved use, with a translation of the psalms which hails from Spain. Make of that what you will. So it would seem to me that if you’re in the UK and using an American resource, you’re hardly committing liturgical abuse.
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • Dixit_Dominus_44
    Posts: 181
    I've been told that if the psalm is sung and not spoken, you have the choice to use a setting from a lectionary even if its not specifically the one used within the particular diocese.


    If memory serves, a user named 'Liam' has often said if the Resp. Ps. is sung (not spoken) the musical setting can be from the Marier St. Paul collection or any other collection under a 'grandfather' rule. I, too, would be interested to see some sort of documentation Re: this claim
    Thanked by 2littleway francis
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    It's standard practice to use the translation which goes with the music. VERSION 2
    The Graduale Romanum uses translations (into Latin) which pre-date Jerome's Vulgate, let alone the Clementine or the NeoVulgata.
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    The last paragraph of the following from the GIRM is specifically adopted by the US bishops, but not necessarily other conferences; in the USA, previously approved translations remain usable for sung responsorial psalms unless and until those approvals are abrogated, which to my knowledge has never happened:

    61. After the First Reading follows the Responsorial Psalm, which is an integral part of the Liturgy of the Word and which has great liturgical and pastoral importance, since it fosters meditation on the Word of God.

    The Responsorial Psalm should correspond to each reading and should usually be taken from the Lectionary.

    It is preferable for the Responsorial Psalm to be sung, at least as far as the people’s response is concerned. Hence the psalmist, or cantor of the Psalm, sings the Psalm verses at the ambo or another suitable place, while the whole congregation sits and listens, normally taking part by means of the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through, that is, without a response. However, in order that the people may be able to sing the Psalm response more easily, texts of some responses and Psalms have been chosen for the different times of the year or for the different categories of Saints. These may be used instead of the text corresponding to the reading whenever the Psalm is sung. If the Psalm cannot be sung, then it should be recited in a way that is particularly suited to fostering meditation on the Word of God.

    In the Dioceses of the United States of America, instead of the Psalm assigned in the Lectionary, there may be sung either the Responsorial Gradual from the Graduale Romanum, or the Responsorial Psalm or the Alleluia Psalm from the Graduale Simplex, as described in these books, or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, including Psalms arranged in metrical form, providing that they have been approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the Responsorial Psalm.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • littleway
    Posts: 5
    Hi Liam,

    Thanks for this. Yes, I've read this section from the GIRM. I suppose the leeway is given in the text ' SHOULD BE be taken from the Lectionary'. It doesn't say it 'HAS TO BE taken from the Lectionary specific to the diocese per se'. I was just hoping for an affirmation, documentation-wise, that this is absolutely ok to be able to use the responsorial psalm words from the lectionary from a different diocese, when the responsorial psalm is SUNG. I'm specifically hoping for documentation to prove to the naysayers in the parish that I'm not doing anything liturgically illegal :))
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    From 2010:

    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/2992/update-on-gia-grail-usccb/p1
    Thanked by 1littleway
  • Dixit_Dominus_44
    Posts: 181
    what country are you asking about specifically? often, common sense must be relied upon. e.g the documents say if someone replaces the introit, the text must be approved by the 'episcopal conference of the country' - but some countries are so small they don't have a conference…
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Small countries usually are grouped with neighbors: e.g., there is an Antilles Episcopal Conference.

    In some countries, it seems that using materials approved by a different episcopal conference is common, even if it's not expressly approved.

    Canadians on this forum have indicated from time to time that many parishes up there seem to be using US-approved psalm settings, perhaps because fewer musical settings were available with the CCCB-approved psalm text, and CCCB didn't own the rights to it and therefore couldn't grant permission. (I don't know whether that's still the case.)
    Thanked by 1littleway
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