Well-grounded thoughts, please
  • Should chant be sung.....

    1)Slowly
    2)Quickly
    3) Musically, organized by musical phrase
    4) Ploddingly: With equal value to each punctum and all pitches the same speed.
    5) With great attention to the text regardless of what the notes say
    6) Legato
    7) Rather more punctuated than legato


    something else?
  • My opinion:

    I believe in variance in tempo, based on mode, text, etc.

    Always musically and with attention to text; I think these two things will inform the tempo.

    Rarely (if ever) "ploddingly" and exact same tempo, although I don't think either that any sort of thing resembling mensuralist interpretation is very good (i.e. any combination of long/short etc.), even with regards to accents in the text when ithe chant is syllabic.

    Basically always legato. More punctuated/not legato sounds bad, in my opinion.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Should chant be sung.....

    1)Slowly
    tempo depends on text and season and mode
    2)Quickly
    tempo depends on text and liturgical sense and mode
    3) Musically, organized by musical phrase
    yes
    4) Ploddingly: With equal value to each punctum and all pitches the same speed.
    no
    5) With great attention to the text regardless of what the notes say
    not regardless, but subserviant to the text
    6) Legato
    depends on the text and the mode and the liturgical sense
    7) Rather more punctuated than legato
    depends on the text and the mode and the liturgical sense

    something else?
    always prayerful
  • WGS
    Posts: 297
    As Ted Marier continually emphasized about chant, "Keep it moving!"
  • In a way the choir can sing it with confidence. Nothing is worse than "mumbled" chant. Of course the acoustics of a building obviously play a part in determining the speed.
  • I tend to avoid any particularly fancy nuance unless I’m singing with a group of highly-skilled singers who are already intimately familiar with chant.

    I once witnessed a rehearsal where the director was trying to get people to massage certain neumes and liquescents and the like in an effort to have a very nuanced interpretation, but the group didn’t even know what the melody was or how to read even basic rhythms. They were in total newbs to chant (for some in the group, this was literally their first time singing chant), and I felt like we were beating our heads against the wall trying to finesse when the group didn’t even have a basic grip on the fundamentals.

    This taught me it is much more important to make sure people have a basic sense of rhythm and know the melody, above all else. Sometimes, that’s what I have to settle for with my group. And that’s a heckuva lot better than trying to force them to “sing fancy” with the end result merely being them singing poorly.
  • I once witnessed a rehearsal where the director was trying to get people to massage certain neumes and liquescents and the like in an effort to have a very nuanced interpretation, but the group didn’t even know what the melody was or how to read even basic rhythms. They were in total newbs to chant (for some in the group, this was literally their first time singing chant), and I felt like we were beating our heads against the wall trying to finesse when the group didn’t even have a basic grip on the fundamentals.


    You can teach these nuances to absolute beginners, but you have to do it in the same way that it was done in the middle ages. You have to do it by rote, and by exampling exactly what you want them to do and having them repeat it after you. You can’t expect someone to look at notation they’ve never seen before and find meaning, and certainly not to interpret it in a reasonable way.
  • William Byrd famously said that in writing music the correct note will be suggested by the word(s). I think that, to a degree, this is also good advice for chant. The text always suggests the tempo and the diction. Otherwise, acoustics will ultimately enliven or suppress all the above. Certainly not ever ploddingly, nor a dead and deliberate legato.
    Sliding should always be avoided, or, if it occurs, the relevant parties should be punished severely.

    All this (in a musically sensitive room) means that the text, the occasion, and the subject of the chant will (to a musically sensitive person) make of the chant a vessel for the action suggested by the text. Sometimes a chant will be rapid, slower or more contemplative, riotously joyful, reflectively sad or thoughtful, depending on the subject. Some chants tell a story, some quote scripture - so all these add up to quite a variety of possible interpretations which do not put 'chant' in a predetermined straight jacket.
  • 1&2: I generally prefer slightly quicker tempos than others; however, a chant should not be sung so fast that the words become unintelligible. The tempo should be fast enough that the music has energy. This is going to depend on each chant. For example, Kyrie Orbis Factor can probably have a bit of a slower tempo than the Introit for All Saints Day.

    3: It should always be sung musically otherwise we are not doing our job as musicians.

    4: Definitely not plodding. This gets back to what I said about the music having energy. You need to keep the line moving. I do tend to keep the basic pulse the same for each note more in the style of Mocquereau. I adjust this though for quilismas or horizontal episemas and lengthen those notes accordingly.

    5: We should pay attention to the text, but we don't need to ignore the music. The text and the music should go together so that each complements the features of the other.

    6&7: I do prefer a more rhythmic interpretation, but less so than others. For example, I have heard people sing a tristropha with so much articulation that there is a little space between each note. I think the notes should still be connected, but with a slight rearticulation on each.

    Something else: I always try to keep the chant moving and with energy. People who dislike chant tend to complain that it is slow, dragging, and boring. I want to keep enough movement in the line to prevent these sorts of complaints. If we want people to like chant, we need to give them something that is musical. The chant needs to be sung in a way that draws people into the text and into prayer, not puts them to sleep. In my opinion, this is best done through a more energetic interpretation.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Eg

    I would not sing Resonet in Laudibus legato.
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 256
    Chant does not equal slow. One is a musical form the other is a tempo.

    While I understand that the "plodding" approach may not be ideal, if you have a large group or a one that is just learning chant, assigning one or two "beats" to the neume makes it easier for the group to cohere.
  • Chaswjd,

    IF I understand you correctly, learning chant at a slow, plodding pace to ensure accuracy and fluency is sensible, but one wouldn't want to run a marathon at the speed of a just-learning-to-crawl child?
  • Some think first of the note, and secondly of the word or syllable that goes on it.
    It should be just the opposite - think first of the word and then of the note.
    This can hold for Latin or English, but especially for Latin because not many know Latin and just apply the right syllable. So it is well if the choirmaster (magister chori) can at least give the choir a rudimentary sense of the text. This holds for English as well, because many people sing words without thinking about the meaning of their texts.

    I am always aghast to witness a choirmaster (even respected scholars!) take great pains and time on getting the right note rightly sung on the right syllable and say nothing about text, diction, intonation, breathing, or meaning.
  • The text has implications, but the notes do too. Two great examples are “Puer natus” which we just heard the other day, and “Hosanna filio David” (Palm Sunday): note that both begin with fanfare motifs in the music. This is not a coincidence. Both are celebratory proclamations that recall horn fanfares. Other bits of text painting happen in Gregorian chant too. It is a highly refined system of melodies which were indeed «composed» at some point in their history.
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 256
    @ Chris Garto-Zavesky - I was using the term "plodding" in the sense of the original post. That is, one beat (or two) per neume. I was not referring to final tempo. My point was that although many theorize that chant should mirror the rhythm of speech, most choristers are not native speakers of Latin so the rhythms of the language do not come naturally to them. Also if your group is larger and not as familiar with chant, having them sing together like this will be very difficult:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9PKLNllMA
  • Chas,

    Point well noted: knowing the text's accent pattern is helpful; knowing phrase highs and lows is important; crawling comes before walking.

    I've just been able to watch the video. I don't agree with every one of his practices, but his premises are sound, I think.
  • Our Experience in our small Monastic Community has been
    1. Not so slow so that it drags and becomes "sausage link" like if you know what I mean...
    2. Not so fast that you can't pray what you are singing, there has to be a balance.
    3. We usually group in what makes sense grammatically
    4. I have only seen Americans doing this- I dont think its a good method.
    5. I think you have to take into account both. Gregorian isnt metrical nor is it free for all. Usually semiology can help with this.
    6/7. I think Americans have a hard time with legato so if you tell them to do it that way, they will never exceed it and it will sound in between almost always. I tell my sisters all the time to pretend they are singing opera- of course it never sounds that way but if I tell them to do that, it sounds a lot better- much more fluid.

    Again this is my own personal experience of it but I think each schola is going to have a different take depending on the situation.
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  • 3. We usually group in what makes sense grammatically
    I’m very big on this too, in both Latin and English. My choir will probably clamor to have “Sing it like you say it!” engraved on the back of my tomb stone.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    My choir will probably clamor to have “Sing it like you say it!”


    I've heard that 'chant is elevated speech,' and 'sing it like music,' and as MJO reminded us, 'the text suggests the music'--rephrased by Pp Benedict as 'the music is the enfleshment of the text.'

    They all mean the same thing....
  • '...enfleshment of the text'.
    A nice way of envisioning the process of matching text and music. I long ago thought of organ settings of sacred texts as shrines for their holy contents. Some shrines are made of stone, some are choral structures, some are made in paintings and written in icons. By all these the sacred has been placed within a seen, heard, or 'written' vessel which is itself holy because of that which it contains, houses, or communicates. So, the next time you learn a choral prelude or a cantus firmus, or teach a motet think of yourself as building an audible shrine for your words.
  • I love this forum so much.
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