RIP Queen Elizabeth
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    You mean Vivat Rex, or has Charlotte consummated her long-anticipated defenestration of George, Wills and Charles, planned with the advise of Great Nana Queen and Great Auntie Royal? Watch out, boys, keep your eyes on this girl.
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  • God be with the Queen.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    Or, may the Queen be with God.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    At least Charlotte's precedence* means her younger brother Louis is free to engage in the theatrical vocation to which he is obviously called.

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,007
    “Vivat Regina Elizabethe” is what was (is in performance) sung during one of the coronation anthems.

    Obviously it is vivat rex now, but I was referring to her. This thread is in her honor, after all.
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  • When I was young I dreamed of living to see the unbelievably distant year two thousand or Charles crowned king - whichever came last. Now my wish has been granted.
    The Queen is dead, long live the King!
    And now may she rest in peace.
    (Our prayers, let them be for Elizabeth II and Charles III,-
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,007
    Quite so.

    I'm saddened to see the amount of vitriol that is spreading online. People positively giddy that she's died, and wishing her a horrible death. The bitterness from people who have been convinced they are dispossessed (they aren't; they live in the west and tweet angrily on iphones...) is staggering.

    Frankly, (and I'm American, mind you, but still appreciate the institution) she was one constant in a world that is otherwise crumbling. She had, in essence, become the world's queen and the world's grandmother.

    I also think that all those who wish to see the monarchy toppled are vile and selfish; they fail to understand that the monarchy is a cultural institution, not merely some rich family living in a castle. (And, let's not forget that it has been multiple generations since they wielded the kind of direct power that people accuse them of abusing.)

    Can you imagine what a tremendous cultural loss it would be to never hear Handel's coronation anthems at a coronation, ever again?! It would be cultural suicide. For 900 years, sacred and solemn ceremonies have taken place at Westminster Abbey. And some wish this to happen never again? God forbid it! Crowns are fascinating to look at in museums, but part of their fascination isn't just their beauty... it's that they are real and are/were worn by real people.

    Yes, their strata is rarified, but there is a literal natural dignity and natural hierarchy—even in heaven. And we cannot doubt for a moment that if the institution collapsed out of bitterness from a vocal minority, others would rush in to fill the void with something decidedly less august, less friendly to the people, and less culturally rich. We've seen it happen so many times. (As one documentary I watched put it, "...just look at the French! They lopped of their king's head and now they are green with envy!")
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,134
    And the British Monarchy, as it is today, without direct political control, is a strong symbol of national (even international) unity. We do not have that privilege in the United States: whenever any national catastrophe occurs, it is the President who delivers a message, which is nearly always party-political, which only strengthens the divisions: those belonging to the President's party praising him, unreservedly for his great wisdom and patriotism; those of the opposition accusing him of using a national crisis for political ends.

    I wonder if those who wish the Monarchy gone have ever wondered what it would be like for the symbol of national unity to be Boris Johnson or David Cameron, rather than the Monarch? The only one who could act in a similar capacity could be the Archbishop of Canterbury, but the same people who want to end the Monarchy would also object to the church being such a symbol of unity, since they usually want Christianity destroyed, too.

    May God give his servant Queen Elizabeth eternal rest. And may He guide King Charles in the ways righteousness and wisdom.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,744
    I'm no fan of monarchy and am glad we got away from the foppery, waste and extravagance that went with it. However, QE II was a good and gracious lady who spent her life in service to her country and improving the lot of its citizens. She was both kind and generous and also a person of deep faith and character. May her memory be eternal.
    Thanked by 2Liam CHGiffen
  • could act in a similar capacity could be the Archbishop of Canterbury


    Only some archbishops of Canterbury want such a role. Justin Welby (whatever his good points) is, arguably, not one of them.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,425
    @CharlesW I'm no fan of Presidents and am glad we do not have the foppery, waste and extravagance that goes with that form of misgovernment.

    @CGZ
    Justin Welby (whatever his good points)
    Does he have good points? I am not the only one to wonder what he believes in.

    Anyway I have been impressed by the kindness evident in much of the coverage, it has all been rather calm. A small number of odd republicans (democrats etc.) have made comments in poor taste but has only shown them to be rather rude and uncaring.

    The London Oratory will have a Requiem for Her Majesty... Our Parish priest read the prayers appointed by the bishops of England and Wales after the Angelus at Midday, our third collect at the 12.15pm Mass today was for the living and the dead. I am sure we will also have some sort of daily Mass for the Departed next week.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    Not naming her is the way to go, and I'm glad that you mostly use the old rubrics, so you can add the prayer Fidelium when it's allowed (and it's required on the first feria of the month) with the intention of praying especially for the Queen.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,744
    tomjaw, after a few years of Charles it will be interesting to see if the monarchy even survives. The problem with our presidents is that like your prime ministers, they quickly come and go. Even the good ones can't establish policies that last beyond their terms.
  • The monarchy costs each taxpayer less than a dollar a year, and a substantial majority of Britons love it. So it's really none of the business of those Americans who want to get rid of it - who asked them anyway?. I think that Charles will be a surprisingly good king.



    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,744
    Jackson, I was sure you would be at the coronation in sparkling gold buckle shoes and crimson knee pants singing "Zadok the Priest" at the top of your lungs.

    I don't care what the British do as concerns their monarchy. I'm just glad we don't have it. Britain was a great empire destroyed by political correctness. It is now a small country and all the pomp of empire seems a bit out of place now. However, it is their money and if that's how they want to spend it, supporting a family of mostly ordinary people who perform ceremonial functions, that's fine.

    Queen Elizabeth, however, was a truly extraordinary person. I see no one her equal who can replace her. Again, may her memory be eternal and may she rest in peace.
  • It might be fun (but we should do it off-forum, probably) to imagine the Coronation as renewed by Abp Bugnini.

    In the meantime, let us pray for the Queen, that God may give her a merciful judgment.

    Requiescat in pace.

    Tom,

    I don't follow him closely, but my impression is that he's trying to steer the cats of the Anglican Communion in the direction they want to go, anyway. Does that count as a good thing or not?
    Thanked by 2CharlesW tomjaw
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,744
    I don't remember what caused them to enter WW I but they had a treaty with Poland to fight in their behalf if invaded. Hitler did exactly that and Britain entered the war. Without the US support in terms of materials and weapons, Germany might have overcome Britain. Churchill did all he could to get the US to go to war but it took the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to do it. Britain's colonies were growing restive earlier in the last century and I think their desire for independence won out after WW II ended.

    Back to Queen Elizabeth, she gave stability to the conversion from empire to commonwealth. With anyone else at the helm, it might not have turned out so well. The woman deserves more credit than she may get.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    WW1: Violation of Belgian neutrality, subject to a British security guarantee when Belgium was founded.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,744
    Thanks, Liam. I couldn't remember that one.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,081
    The Monarchy... in essence, a God given sceptre, in reality, this one had defected from the Catholic Church... nevertheless, 'God save the Queen', because the God of Mercy is on who we all depend.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    Well, wee-wat rex is a bit pithier than wee-wat re-Gee-na.
  • Liam,

    Isn't it Why-Wat? The recording from 1953 seems to have this pronunciation.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,671
    I was using erstwhile classical pronunciation, not the Anglican. (Hard G).
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • When I heard of her Majesty's death, I immediately recited the De profundis.
    May she rest in peace.
    God save King Charles!
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,106
    May she rest in peace.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Jehan_Boutte