• the shockingly hostile Atlantic magazine (one of whose cover articles read "save the Catholic Church: abolish the priesthood") is at it again. This time they attack the Rosary, of all things. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/252046/rosaries-atlantic-extremism

    A reasonable response for a CD might be to see if upcoming schedules have room for an Ave Maria. Am thinking I might make it a weekly addition here.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,888
    Like any other tradition, when they condemn it, the condemn the centuries of faithful who have come before as much as they condemn us, which really reveals the hubris in it. Our parish (novus ordo) is already in the habit of ending every mass with the seasonal Marian Antiphon, but I might have to pepper in a few extra Marian hymns here and there.
  • Serviam,
    It's the Atlantic, not a Vatican dicastery. Did you expect fair or honest treatment from this publication?
  • If rosaries are a weapon, I’d sure as anything hope to be a Dirty Harry. (“Did I pray six aves or only five?…”)
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,888
    No, nothing of the sort. I’m just making the observation that, like all modernists, by condemning ancient and revered tradition, they condemn every other generation that held it dear as well.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    It's been the occasion of great hilarity online, to be sure. Mr. Panneton had to lock down his Twitter and everything. Let's offer a decade for each of his 15 minutes of fame.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores tomjaw
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    Can nobody read anymore? Does no one care to go to the horse’s mouth and see what the fuss is about?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/radical-traditionalist-catholic-christian-rosary-weapon/671122/

    The author has no axe to grind with the Rosary; rather, he is disturbed to discover that some people are making rosaries out of bullets, posting images of the Rosary wrapped around guns, calling for violence, and otherwise conflating a spiritual weapon with physical weapons. Surely such acts are prima facie blasphemous and contrary to any sort of pro-life identity, and it bothers me to no end that the response of CNA and others has been to play the victim card, misrepresent the author’s opinion, and stir up controversy, where there should be none among people of good will.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Bahahahahahahaha.

    That article was not written in good faith by someone of good will, and the people positively receiving it, i.e. on Twitter by such personalities like Jenn Morson, the reporter, or Henry Karlson III, a Where Peter Is contributor, aren't either.

    Anyway, they didn't even post a rosary at first. The image now accompanying the article is a replacement. I believe they changed the subtitle too.

    Also, the rosaries out of bullets thing is contentious, as best, because lots of people who don't know anything about guns don't understand that the "original" version (insofar as such can be thought to be so) from Etsy was from .22 ammunition used for shooting targets.

    I'd also suggest that, despite the author's pleas to the contrary, the idea of the rosary as a weapon of spiritual combat is what motivates this discourse, not just people taking it, perhaps, too far on the internet. For example, he says:

    One Catholic online store, which describes itself as “dedicated to offering battle-ready products and manuals to ‘stand firm against the tactics of the devil’” (a New Testament reference), sells replicas of the rosaries issued to American soldiers during the First World War as “combat rosaries.” Discerning consumers can also buy a “concealed carry” permit for their combat rosary and a sacramental storage box resembling an ammunition can. In 2016, the pontifical Swiss Guard accepted a donation of combat rosaries; during a ceremony at the Vatican, their commander described the gift as “the most powerful weapon that exists on the market.”


    If there's nothing harmful about the rosary of a weapon of spiritual combat, one endorsed even by Francis, then why protest? Why is there a problem with the lampshade chain being used for a rosary in imitation of the one issued to doughboys or people digging through estate sales and secondhand stores to find the originals? (I've seen them; the new ones are a little long, but they improve on the original beads.) Why is there a problem with the way in which the Swiss Guards accepted the donation of rosary? Maybe his remark could be considered "cringe," but the implication is that he shouldn't have tried to aid the spiritual life of his men.

    The author goes on to criticize Bishop Olmsted's initiatives in Phoenix, and while sometimes one can make criticisms from the right of something hated by the left, nevertheless, I'm hardpressed to do anything other than accept "no enemies to the right" in this case. Why, because the alternative is to just accept things like widespread use of pornography and frequent self-abuse and a total and utter decline in manners and a love of being gentle and firm in the manner of the saints and Christ himself.

    The author criticizes Catholics who believe that all Christians have a duty to enter full communion with the one true church of Christ (or however you want to phrase it: "the church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church" is of course from Vatican II) and are at least in material heresy. We shouldn't take that standing up.

    Finally, I note that the author has all sorts of muddled concerns about Christian nationalism, while writing from Toronto. It's not impossible to be a keen observer of things from abroad, but it is difficult.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw ServiamScores
  • Gamba,

    I have read the article now, but I don't share your take on the article, for the most part.

    There are people in this country who will use religion as a cover for whatever they want to do. (As just obvious examples, the Church of Satan is suing to end restrictions on abortion because those restrictions restrict the free exercise of religion; Joe Biden and many like him in Washington claim to be devout Catholics, and even can be seen in public with their rosaries; a particularly strange group of revisionists claims that all the Founding Fathers were good Christians; Rafael Warnock and Stacey Abrams claim God is pro-abortion; people used to quote the Bible to support the American form of slavery.)

    We are in a spiritual war, and the rosary is a powerful weapon in that war. The rosary is more than a mere 'devotional aid'. Bullets used as rosary beads, surely, are no longer usable as gun bullets (one of the resident gun specialists will put me right on that if I'm mistaken), so making rosaries out of them isn't really blasphemous in the proper sense of that word.

    "Christian nationalism", so far as I understand the term, is a far cry from traditional Catholicism. In common parlance, "RadTrad" is just the religious version of "right-wing extremist".
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,888
    The problem, as I see it, is just that low-information Catholics and other Christian’s will see this and think that something nefarious is actually going on, and that the rosary is indeed a problem. They will start to see goblins at every turn and wonder if every [typically unused] rosary hanging from a rear-view-mirror is yet another “extremist”. Most people don’t do much critical thinking these days.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Of course Lucifer and the fallen angels find our Blessed Lady (particularly her heel) terrifying. By extension the rosary is not something they like to hear.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    Does anyone want to join my club?

    Rosary, Scotch and a Pipe usually in that order.

    :)
    atf.jpg
    2279 x 1541 - 133K
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  • Drake
    Posts: 221
    I have read the article from The Atlantic. In a rational world, such a piece of "journalism" would be ridiculous. In our irrational world, it is insidious. The following are my reasons for saying so:

    1. The article projects a love of violence on people who do not, in fact, love violence. Rather, by its purposeful failure to note any examples of violence against the people it demonizes (liberals would never burn churches, decapitate statues, physically threaten Catholic Supreme Court justices with whom it disagrees, or threaten revenge, right?) while associating its enemies with the very violence mentality it actually practices, it lies by omission and paints its enemies in false color. This is a simple act of propaganda, and one that is sadly effective in our day.

    2. It employs and, as necessary, invents derogatory adjectives against its enemies. Never is its enemy called by his chosen name, such as pro-life or Catholic. Always he is "radical", "far-right", "alt-right", "extremist", "homophobic", "transphobic" (not an actually word, as my spell-checker points out) ... in a word "deplorable". He is all of these things, and no one need prove it. This is, yet another propaganda tactic.

    3. It ignores actual recent events, as if they only exist in the minds of these "extremists".

    But among radical-traditional Catholic men, such concerns take an extremist turn, rooted in fantasies of violently defending one’s family and church from marauders.


    Because churches haven't been violently attacked in recent months, right? Because defending one's family with force to repel a home invasion is evil? Because we live in a peaceful, utopian society run by enlightened liberals -- you know, like Chicago? Because Jane's Revenge is an altruistic NGO intent on philanthropic work, like feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and painting violent threats on churches and pregnancy centers?

    4. Not only does the article project its cause's failings on its enemies, the article itself accuses its enemies of doing the very thing the article does.

    The “battle beads” culture of spiritual warfare permits radical-traditional Catholics literally to demonize their political opponents and regard the use of armed force against them as sanctified.


    Is it not true that the article demonizes its political opponents? Does it not inflame the liberal base against these political enemies -- and to what purpose? To heal wounds? To mend divisions? To find common ground? Then why, if not to silence a voice with which it disagrees but whose arguments for life and holiness it cannot actually refute?

    Now to the assertion itself. Does the "'battle beads' culture of spiritual warfare" actually do what the article says it does? How many times do we hear from liberals that violent video games do not lead to physical violence? Yet we are supposed to believe that militaristic rosaries do? Why exactly is that?

    5. The timing is significant. It comes in the wake of the Dobbs decision and mentions Dobbs in connection to the evils of the "rad-trads". Just based on the title of the article, would anyone expect the article to have anything at all to do with Dobbs? Of course not. Yet this is what it has to say, near the end where the author is about to draw his conclusions:

    Yet the convergence within Christian nationalism is cemented in common causes such as hostility toward abortion-rights advocates. The pro-choice protests that followed the leaked early draft of the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturned Roe v. Wade, led to a profusion of social-media posts on the far right fantasizing about killing activists, and such forums responded to Pride month this year with extremist homophobic and transphobic “groomer” discourse.


    This leads me to believe that the stated title of the article is not genuine. Its purpose is not to warn of the dangers of a new breed of violent extremist. It is rather to create said extremist and identify preexisting political enemies with him. It is to paint abortion and sodomy as normal and opponents of those sins as deranged. It is to call good "evil" and evil "good".

    6. Now for the more subtle points. The article forces all Catholics into the "rad-trad" circle in one way or another.

    Many radical-traditional Catholic men maintain the hard-line position that other forms of Christianity are heretical, and hold that Catholics alone adhere to the one true Church.


    Simply put, this is not a radical idea, notwithstanding the article labeling it "hard-line". I would not be a Catholic if I did not think Catholicism is the one true religion. In fact, the Catholic Church teaches that She is the one True Church. So, basically, if you think Catholicism is true, you are suddenly a "rad-trad". Oh the irony!

    7. The article title states that the rosary is being co-opted by "rad-trads" for their nefarious schemes. Like other co-opted symbols used by the "alt-right", the rosary is now fair game. So if you love and promote the rosary, watch out! You're now displaying a symbol of white supremacy by association. So for the sake of peace and civil dialog ... you had better put those beads away...

    I think "satanic" is not an exaggerated description of this article.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,888
    Ten points to Gryffindor! (Drake)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    Drake... you got a 100% on the quiz... extra credit? pray a rosary for these thine enemies.
    Thanked by 2Drake tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    In a rational world, such a piece of "journalism" would be ridiculous. In our irrational world, it is insidious.


    Both are true, in fact. It was embarrassing for the magazine, and it's insidious because of the effect on the readership.
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