Responsorial Psalms : where do the responsory texts come from?
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    I am writing Psalm settings, based on the Gregorian repertoire, for the Canadian lectionary texts (NRSV)

    Today I was working on the Epiphany psalm (71/72) whose response in English is "Lord, every nation on earth will adore you". This is not a translation of the line in the Psalm "Omnes gentes servient ei" with which the Offertorium for Epiphany ends. However, in the other vernacular Lectionaries I consulted, there appeared the equivalent of "Lord, every nation on earth will adore you." (rather than "All nations shall serve him", which _does_ appear in the NRSV proper).

    I conclude that psalm responses have an independent Latin original somewhere. What is the original Latin for this text? Where do those originals come from?
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    Ordo Lectionum Missae, editio typica altera, 1981,
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    The antiphons for the responsorial psalms are the ICEL translations of the antiphons in the Latin lectionary. The psalm texts, however, are from the New American Bible - hence the discrepancy in the wording. They are not related to any other proper texts of the mass (e.g. the Offertory verse) but are generally taken from the psalm itself.

    Sam Schmitt
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    So, I understand that the answer is: the typical Lectionary contains psalm responses.

    Robert, do you _have_ a copy of the typical Lectionary, and if so, please could you look up Epiphany and report what the text of the response is?

    (Anyone know if the text of the typical Lectionary is available anywhere on line?)

    Rich, the antiphons in the new Canadian Lectionary are not always the old ICEL translations. Often, they are exactly the text of a corresponding NRSV psalm verse. But for Epiphany the response is still the "old" one, the ICEL one: and the difference is reflected in the French and Polish lectionaries as well. So, I _hope_ to discover that the Latin version underlying also says something along the lines of All nations on earth shall adore you.
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    Andrew, I don't have a copy of the Lectionary in Latin, but I do have the Scepter/ MTF Daily Roman Missal which contains the psalm responses and gospel acclamations in from it. The text of the psalm response for Epiphany is "Adorabunt te, Domine, omnes gentes terrae."
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    The lectionary antiphons, which ICEL administers, were actually "lifted" by them from first UK provisional lectionary (Geoffrey Chapman, 1970), without attribution and without permission.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    Thanks for all your help, one last question: where does the Latin text "Adorabunt te, Domine, omnes gentes terrae" come from actually?

    Wait, I know (google, google), Tobit 13:13. Not used in the e.f..

    Thanks, all.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    For the response, the Ordo Lectionum Missae refers to Ps. 71,11. The Nova Vulgata reads: "Et adorabunt eum omnes reges, omnes gentes servient ei", and the Vulgata Clementina: "et adorabunt eum omnes reges terræ; omnes gentes servient ei".
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    Luckily the references in the OLM are not part of the litugical law.

    Since Tob. 13. 13 says "Luce splendida fulgebis, et omnes fines terræ adorabunt te" which is obviously the thing.

    Tobit does get quoted in the old liturgy : it's all over Trinity Sunday. But not at Epiphany.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 835
    What's the easiest source to access that indexes the occurence of scripture in the EF/TLM?
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,185
    "The Roman Missal, classical form, created by the great Holger Peter Sandhofe, is now hosted in a more accessible form at MusicSacra.com. Download here."
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 835
    Yes, what a great source, and very searchable!
    Is there a good scriptural index to the EF Epistles and Gospels?
    I assume that the (minor) propers are no indexed anywhere--entirely too much, probably!
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    Perhaps these websites may be marginally helpful:

    Charts listing the Sunday readings for the OF (I suppose it's "searchable" in a rudimentary way using the search function on your browser):

    http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/index.html

    A link to indexes of the gospel passages according to their use in the Sunday lectionary (about halfway down the page at "Reflections indexed by Gospel chapter and verse"):

    http://www.christusrex.org/www1/mcitl/litlib.html

    and here:

    http://www.textweek.com/scripture.htm

    Sam Schmitt
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