Parish-Choir Merger
  • Ohioguy
    Posts: 4
    At my current parish there's going to be an upcoming merger. Six parishes will be merging into one with three campuses remaining open for the time being. I've been chosen to be the music director for the new parish, with one assistant music director. What I was wondering was if any of you have been in a situation like this one and how you handled it. Multiple choirs will have to be combined and different parishes have very different musical repertoires. One parish is more traditional and uses the Worship II hymnal, the others use Breaking Bread/Spirit & Song with a hardcopy GIA or OCP hymnal. In some ways I think that certain things won't be too hard. I'm planning on assigning the "guitar group" from one of the parishes to cover a Saturday evening mass and the choir from another has 3 members so that won't last long. I'm going to try to shift the parish to a common hymnal and mix of hymns so that parishioners feel a sense of unity in the parish, I just don't want to change too much so that people feel even more stressed from the merger. Please let me know any thoughts or suggestions.
  • Ohioguy,

    I encourage you to do more than you are proposing. I've not been the director of a cluster's music program, but I have taken over other situations in very tense circumstances.

    I encourage you NOT to divide up the parish by assigning new roles in the new parish as you propose, but, rather, bring everyone currently in music programs in the parishes together in one room, over food if possible, so you can set out a new vision. That vision should be what will help the parish grow, even thrive, which its predecessors aren't doing, or there wouldn't be both a shortage of priests and other reasons to cluster the parishes together. Explain (if you think it wise) that you're not passing judgment on the previous programs in the previous parishes, but that you don't want to bring those programs merely to do what they've already been doing. Getting behind the pastor and his assistants in specifically not creating six parishes under one roof but one new parish is important. Find a few hardy souls to help carry the load while others get ready to take on new roles. Integrate new comers into the new program.

    Oxen pull well, but only if they're yoked together, not at cross purposes.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Six parishes into 1? I thought we had problems.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores Elmar
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    Ohioguy - getting people together (synodality?) is not just a good thing, it is essential. But it will inevitably lead to acrimony, and that has to be expected, coped with, and worked through. It is not an easy process, it often needs an outsider with experience to handle such things.
    If you can, read M Scott Peck- The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace (Simon & Schuster, 1987) ISBN 978-0-684-84858-7 [other similar products exist]
  • I'm planning on assigning the "guitar group" from one of the parishes to cover a Saturday evening mass


    Why? Why does Saturday evening Mass always get crappy music?
    Thanked by 2tomjaw LauraKaz
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    Some here will think this is your big chance to deep six the guitar group immediately, but I think you have the correct idea of using them for the Saturday evening Mass where less traditional souls are already likely to attend Mass.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    Why? Why does Saturday evening Mass always get crappy music?

    One might ask why we have Saturday masses at all… my parents have made, along with many of their peers, an absolutely punctilious habit of attending on Saturday evenings for no reason at all. They aren’t paramedics, or cops, or doctors on call who have to work Sunday morning. If I had my druthers, there wouldn’t be an anticipated mass at all.

    Regardless, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people who prefer this style of music and who populate such musical groups tend to be of the Saturday mass variety to begin with. These masses are often lesser-attended as well, so it seems prudent to eschew such groups to a time when they would be prone to attend and can do the least damage to the next generation.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I think an error was made in having Saturday evening masses. In the east, we have Vespers on Saturday evenings. This would have been a great opportunity to restore the Office.

    I heard a rumor years ago, can't verify any of it, that the Italian soccer leagues play on Sundays. Saturday evening mass was a device to recapture those souls who would be at the games instead of at mass.

    Something I found useful on the choir thing, is to tell everyone that you are not the person who previously directed them. That you may have different abilities, likes, dislikes, and experiences. That you will make decisions from your background and experience and you can't second guess what your predecessor might have done. Also, mention what the pastor's vision is for liturgy and point out that this is your guide.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins LauraKaz
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075
    Why? Why does Saturday evening Mass always get crappy music?

    ummm.. maybe to encourage people to abandon the practice of skipping Sunday Mass by attending Saturday "vigils" :)
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 539
    Have been in situations much like this. I would say lean heavily on the pastor and get as close as you can to any beloved/retired/transient priests that the congregations know and get them to help you make the sale, i.e. by speaking first at the big dinner CGZ proposed above, pitching the choir in their homilies, and so on.

    I have seen many situations where Fr. Boomer hired Joe YoungTrad to be director of music because he suddenly had 6 parishes’ worth of pennies and could hire a full-time guy, but he doesn’t really care if it’s OCP or chant. The various musicians and other grouchy folks with $$ easily pick up on this and revolt until YoungTrad is fired and the parish is back on Breaking Bread next Advent. But if “Father wants it”, people cooperate.
    Thanked by 2Elmar LauraKaz
  • Felicia
    Posts: 111
    I happen to be the regular organist at the Saturday evening Mass at my parish, and have served in this capacity for quite a few years. I am not the coordinator of music (the position is not called director) and thus, don't select the music; and I usually work with a cantor or a small group of singers. The current coordinators of liturgy and music are young and traditional-minded, so our NO Masses are basically traditional and straightforward. That has not always been the case in the past when we had different pastors and music coordinators. Regardless, the level of congregational singing is quite good, mainly because the people know the Mass settings by heart, and are accustomed to most of the hymns we use.

    This may be the exception rather than the rule, but I thought I needed to say it.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Bri Carol
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Be prepared for everyone to hate you, look for new positions, do the best you can, and leave as soon as possible. And don't expect much from the priest(s), the people will hate him, too. In situations like this, everyone is viewed as the enemy by the people whose churches were closed. Many will stop coming, others will drive, even upward of an hour to attend a different parish.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Elmar
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,722
    But if “Father wants it”, people cooperate.
    Meh. There’s a very practical limit to this, and they have to like the priest for anything to work in this manner. If charity for the priest is lacking, or the priest pushes too far/hard/fast, people won’t give a rip, even if 'it’s what father wants'. They will either ignore him whenever they can, or vote with their feet/wallets.
    Thanked by 2Elmar LauraKaz
  • Study THIS, from St. Martin of Tours parish website (Louisville, KY)

    From the time of WWI to the late 1970’s, membership declined drastically to just 30 or so people attending Sunday Mass. This was the result of the declining number of immigrants, anti-German sentiment and the flight to the suburbs. Several disasters, such as fires, a tornado and the 1937 flood did not help. However, the Lord’s faithfulness was about to be revealed at its fullest. Under the Direction of Fr. Vernon Robertson, Mass attendance began to rise quickly to 350 households by 1992. He used the great organ to fill the church with classical and traditional church music. With the spiritual leadership of Fr. Dennis Cousens and his introduction of Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration in 1996, our total membership reached 1,000 households, coming from 43 zip codes in the Louisville Metro area


    St. Martin's was scheduled for closure when Fr. Robertson arrived.
    I never knew Fr. Robertson, because he died before I arrived, but I knew people who spoke glowingly of him and his vision to revitalize the parish. It worked.

    Fr. Cousens, when we was being reassigned, said he had some advice for the incoming director of Vocations: study success. This advice is good for your situation, too.

    If the parish priest is egotistical instead of Christocentric, your six parishes will be soon merged into the new diocese created by the amalgamation of two neighboring dioceses. The giant sucking sound (to borrow from Ross Perot) will be a vacuum opening over Hell. BUT, if he puts Christ first, his hardened parishioners will see this and have their hearts softened. St. John Vianney did this at Ars. Other precedents exist.

    Thanked by 2Reval LauraKaz
  • “Since there weren’t any people, I decided to fill it with music.” – Fr. Vernon Robertson

    With St. Martin of Tours facing certain closure in 1979, Fr. Vernon Robertson brought new life to the parish with his dedication to liturgy and music of the highest order, laying the foundation for the current music program. Celebrated in a resonant and exceptionally beautiful church, and accompanied by a landmark, historic pipe organ, the Masses at St. Martin’s are always filled with music of the highest caliber.
    Thanked by 2Reval LauraKaz
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    " . . . my parents have made, along with many of their peers, an absolutely punctilious habit of attending on Saturday evenings for no reason at all."

    I know why mine did for years in their 70s and 80s: it took my mother several hours to get ready in the morning (a daily purgatory of effort), and for her to cycle through her medications that would make going out to a place without easy access to a lavatory a logistical burden. The option of a late afternoon Mass was a great blessing that allowed them to attend Mass, which they wanted to do. They were not alone in this regard. But most such folks would never explain their reasons to anyone else, so it might appear to the naive (about aging) or uncharitable that they had no reason at all. The world is a lot better place when one can expand one's charitable imagination.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    You will probably find you've inherited some singing duds from some of the choirs. Since you're basically starting new by forming everything into one parish, why not go through the tryout process with everyone? Weed out bad apples before they get a chance to ruin your choir.
  • Label this audition your opportunity to get to know the singers and their abilities.
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Be prepared for everyone to hate you, look for new positions, do the best you can, and leave as soon as possible. And don't expect much from the priest(s), the people will hate him, too. In situations like this, everyone is viewed as the enemy by the people whose churches were closed. Many will stop coming, others will drive, even upward of an hour to attend a different parish.


    Salieri, that can easily happen. Glad you brought it up but I hope the case of the original poster will be the exception to that.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Run
    Thanked by 2Andrew_Malton Elmar
  • Ohioguy
    Posts: 4
    Thanks for all the comments. In talking with the pastor unfortunately it seems that he’s not particularly devoted to music, except for saying that at least one mass needs to be a “Gospel music mass”. He came from a parish where all the masses were covered by volunteer groups which isn’t a great model. Essentially he told me that I shouldn’t change much of anything and the parish can’t upset the old parishioners who pay the bills. I suspect I will have some influence in being able to choose a loose leaf hymnal but haven’t been able to find anything too comprehensive. Breaking Bread has an ok mix but it’s still pretty bad.
  • I should like to change my advice.

    Francis has the right attitude in this particular situation.
    Thanked by 2Andrew_Malton Elmar
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    Ohioguy, based don your last comment, I'd add my voice to the "get out of Dodge" opinion. That job listing in Nashville would be looking awfully tempting right now!
  • If you're being instructed to cater to the noisy wheels (which is what it sounded like) and intentionally incorporate "Gospel Music" at one of the Masses all the time, what you're being asked to do is not the proper duty of a Church musician.

    Now, it might be that the old, noisy parishioners actually want something other than what this priest believes that they want... in which case data would be a good thing to have as arrows in your quiver. If he's committed to nonsense, on the other hand, and you value either your sanity or your reputation as a serious musician, take the first cab off property.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw Elmar LauraKaz
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    If you are a subscriber to _The Lamp_, you can read my thoughts about St Martin’s and Fr Robertson, some of whose homilies are on Youtube.

    I never knew him or Fr Cousens, but the advice is sound.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    One might ask why we have Saturday masses at all…


    At one time, the Saturday Mass was the Sunday evening Mass. When that was changed to the Saturday Vigil Mass, the Sunday evening people followed. (I know this because I lived it. My dad was the head usher for the Sunday evening Mass. When it was changed to Saturday, we started going to the Saturday evening Mass.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    Of course, the Sunday evening Mass wasn't a thing until the 1950s: before that, with the exception of Midnight Mass, scheduled Masses normally had to start between 6AM and 1PM.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Liam, why the 1pm limit? 6am makes sense since you would not have anyone attend before then. Did this also apply to daily mass so that people could not go on their way home from work?
  • Nathan,

    If I had to guess, the 1 p.m. limit was organized around either Sexte (instead of Terce) or the fast from midnight.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I think the fasting from midnight on everything including water was the reason. I remember as a kid it wasn't unusual for a person or two to pass out at one of the later morning masses.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    Nathan,

    The strictures about starting the celebration of Mass during the regularized/notional rising of the sun between the beginning of the notional first canonical hour and the completion of notional sixth canonical hour (effectively a 7 hour window) applied to daily Mass as well as Sunday Mass.* Priests couldn't celebrate Mass after breaking fast. Pius XII changed that in 1953.**

    * The roots of these strictures go way back, and I don't have any reference to specific canons or decretals from those earlier times, but in the 1917 code of canon law (the first time the canons and decretals were codified in a single place) they were codified as follows:

    Canon 821
    § 1. The beginning of the celebration of Mass shall not occur earlier than one hour before first light or later than one hour after noon.
    § 2. On the night of Birth of the Lord only a conventual or parochial Mass can be held at
    midnight, and no other without apostolic indult.
    § 3. Nevertheless, in all religious or pious houses having an oratory with the faculty of habitually keeping the most holy Eucharist, on the night of the Birth of the Lord, one priest can say three ritual Masses or, those things being observed that ought to be observed, only one [Mass] which counts for the satisfaction of the precept for all who are there, and can minister sacred communion to all requesting it.

    ** https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12chdom.htm
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    At my current parish there's going to be an upcoming merger. Six parishes will be merging into one with three campuses remaining open for the time being. I've been chosen to be the music director for the new parish, with one assistant music director.
    How has this 'chosing' taken place? Has there been a job opening and you were the succesful candidate? Or have you been assigned by the pastor / parish commitee / whoever among musicians already working in one of the merging parishes?
    As said by others, it is not an easy job to be the leader of a team of church musicians who are used to doing what they heve always done in their cosy little parish, and don't like anyone else to interfere.

    If you want to accept this job, the minimum thing to do is to discuss your plans with everyone who will be in charge of the merged parish (pastor and others) and make sure that you have their support; and crucially: what freedom you have and don't have for taking your own decisions. If there is any doubt on these arrangements, refuse. Dont go into the trap of 'wait and see, time will tell' (an error I made, of which I am now bearing the consequences).

    Only when you are sure about this (doesn't seem very likely after your second post, but who knows) you should go back to Chris's first advice:
    bring everyone currently in music programs in the parishes together in one room, over food if possible, so you can set out a new vision
    Having the mandate to take decisions doesn't mean that you can do without everyone else's advice and suggestions. Discuss!
    But make sure that everyone knows who is going to decide when consensus isn't reached. Don't shy away from being clear from the start, it actually helps to find agreement in 99% of the cases.
    Authority isn't dictatorship but its opposite.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Chris et al.

    That's true as far as it goes: Masses fit more or less in between the period from Prime to Sext (or before and after as the case may be), and the offices were frequently anticipated, such as on fasting days, which would also fit Masses in after None, which would then cover all of the days of the year in a large cathedral or collegiate church, but all you had to do was begin Mass between an hour before dawn and an hour after midday according to any system of reckoning time, whichever was more favorable in the judgement of the person with authority over a Mass schedule or an individual celebrant. Further, a reasonable cause dispensed from this, which is what would have permitted Masses on Sunday before dawn for people leaving work in the early morning if sunrise was too late; Wapelhorst notes that in the US, dawn is about one or two hours before sunrise. For example, the sun rose today at 5:19 AM in a Massachusetts town where we like to spend time at the beach. Astronomical twilight began at 3:14 AM. Solar noon is 12:48 PM. So that gives you until 1:45 PM to licitly start a Mass if the pre-1955 CIC was in effect without emendations. Plus, private Masses (in the strictest sense, I think, of a priest not celebrating for the faithful of the parish even as a second Mass) didn't have to follow this law if it impeded celebration at all on a given day.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    That's why I referred to scheduled Masses. There were indults and there was interpretive leeway as you illustrate to deal with changing seasons (daylight being more seasonally variable the further away from the Equator you go, and western Europe has more people in places where that's an issue than North America or any significant population center in the Southern Hemisphere).
  • I would hazard a guess (and am willing to be smacked across the head if I'm wrong) that the regulations about time for starting Mass were modified if you were on a boat, or a battlefield or a prisoner-of-war camp.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Well, it was forbidden to celebrate at sea, actually, unless you had an apostolic indult.

    In the latter two cases, you have a reasonable cause ipso facto.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Ergo, Missa sicca, vel Missa Nautica, i.e., a Mass of the presanctified similar to Good Friday, where the Mass of the Catechumens (Liturgy of the Word) took place, together with the distribution of Holy Communion from hosts previously consecrated.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    [I edited the title of this thread slightly to work around a technical problem.--admin]
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    Our parish used to encompass a rather large area. One of our pastors (this was before A/C was common) asked the bishop if he could drink some water, in the summertime, while driving from one church to another to say Mass on Sundays. The bishop said no.
  • Ohioguy
    Posts: 4
    Thanks all for the suggestions and support. I essentially ended up in this job because 2/6 parishes didn’t have a director and the other 2/6 had part time people who retired. I think the advice for leaving might be the right thing to do. I’ve noticed that since I’ve had this job I’ve become increasingly bored at mass and that this parish isn’t conducive to a healthy faith. It’s sad looking out at a 1/4 full church filled with only people over 65. At the same time, my wife is here because of a position she has that isn’t easy to transfer and I don’t want to be without work. She and our children attend a different, more vibrant parish.

    I also though the suggestions about St. Martin in Louisville to be interesting. Unfortunately there are things about my parishes that wouldn’t work well for that. Our buildings were all built in the 1950s and unless you’re really into ugly carpet and wood paneling you’d be unlikely to seek us out. We also have multiple vibrant traditional parishes nearby.
  • Ohioguy,

    Could you define "vibrant"?

    About St. Martin's: it's in what was at one point a very unsafe part of town (and I don't mean even the riots of the 1800's). Ugly buildings can be improved. Jeeps can be used as altars in warzones, but only idiots bring jeeps into parish churches for the express purpose of serving as altars.

    Remember that the parish was scheduled for closure. God changed that trajectory.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • Ohioguy
    Posts: 4
    My wife did her residency about two blocks away from St. Martin. We were member of another parish in Louisville, St. William, but attended mass there once or twice. I would say that St. Martin does have somewhat of a problem in connecting to their immediate community but they do have a tremendous ministry of being open 24/7 as a place of prayer and silence for people from all over the city.

    Vibrancy is complicated for me. I think at least from my perspective it involves people actually caring about each other, the liturgy, and their community. There are lots of parishes with thousands of members but no real sense of care.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    IDK, the Smoketown residents have always been deeply appreciative of St Martin’s remaining open, and both the Golden Arrow and the Schumann Center are important parts of the neighborhood fabric.

    Yes, it’s true that they have few resident parishioners, but you can only do so much in this day and age when being open or even simply present is the most important thing.