Matins lections for the Visitation: an idea/question
  • This morning's Matins' lections include familiar passages from the Song of Songs, and much less familiar passages from St. John Chrysostom:
    (First, the Latin; English below, courtesy of Divinum Officium)

    Cum ad nos advenísset Redémptor nostri géneris, venit prótinus ad suum amícum Ioánnem, dum adhuc esset in ventre matris. Quem cum ex útero in útero aspexísset Ioánnes, términos natúræ concútiens, exclámat: Vídeo Dóminum, qui natúræ impósuit términos, et non exspécto tempus nascéndi. Novem ménsium tempus mihi non est hic necessárium; in me est enim, qui est ætérnus. Egrédiar ex hoc tenebróso tabernáculo, rerum admirabílium compendiósam prædicábo cognitiónem. Sum signum: significábo Christi advéntum. Sum tuba: próferam Fílii Dei in carne dispensatiónem. Tuba canam; eo ipso patérnæ linguæ benedícam, et eam traham, ut loquátur. Tuba canam, et úterum matérnum vivificábo.

    Vides, o dilécte, quam sit novum et admirábile mystérium. Nondum náscitur, et sáltibus lóquitur; nondum appáret, et minas inténtat; nondum ei permíttitur clamáre, et per facta audítur; nondum ducit vitam, et Deum prǽdicat; nondum áspicit lucem, et solem índicat; nondum páritur, et próperat præcúrrere. Non fert enim, præsénte Dómino, continéri; non sústinet natúræ exspectáre términos; sed conténdit rúmpere cárcerem ventris, et studet præsignificáre veniéntem Salvatórem. Accéssit, inquit, qui solvit víncula; et quid ego sédeo vinctus, et retíneor ut máneam? Venit Verbum, ut ómnia constítuat; et ego adhuc máneo deténtus? Exíbo, præcúrram, et prædicábo ómnibus: Ecce Agnus Dei, qui tollit peccátum mundi.

    Sed dic nobis, Ioánnes, cum adhuc in tenebróso matris útero contineáris, quómodo intuéris et audis? quómodo res divínas contempláris? quómodo éxsilis et exsúltas? Magnum est, inquit, quod perágitur mystérium, et actus ab humána remótus comprehensióne. Mérito ínnovo natúram propter eum, qui est innovatúrus ea quæ sunt supra natúram. Vídeo, etsi adhuc in útero sim; quóniam in útero gestári vídeo solem iustítiæ. Auribus percípio, quóniam nascor vox magni Verbi. Exclámo, quóniam Fílium Patris unigénitum consídero carne indútum. Exsúlto, quóniam univérsi Effectórem vídeo formam, hóminis suscípere. Exsílio, quóniam mundi Redemptórem cógito incorporátum. Præcúrro advéntum eius, et quodámmodo vobis prǽeo confessióne.


    As soon as our Redeemer was come among us, He went with haste, while as yet He was in His mother's womb, to visit His friend John. And John, in the one womb, becoming conscious of the Presence of Jesus in the other womb, dashed himself impatiently against the narrow walls of his natural prison, as though crying out: I see the very Lord who hath given nature her bounds, and I wait not for the due season of my birth. There is no need for me to linger here till nine months are ended, for He That is Eternal is with me! I will break out of my dark cell; I will proclaim my full knowledge of many wonders. I am the sign. I will show that the Christ is here. I am the trumpet; let me peal forth the news that the Son of God is come in the flesh. Let me give my trumpet-note, let me bless my father's tongue, and make it to speak again. Let me give my trumpet-note, let me quicken my mother's womb.

    Thou seest, O beloved, how new and how strange a mystery is here! John is not born, but by leaping he speaketh; he is yet unseen, and he giveth warning; he is not yet able to cry, but by his acts he is heard. He draweth not yet the breath of life, but he preacheth God. he seeth not yet the light, but he maketh known the Sun! He is not come out of the womb, but he hasteth to play the Fore-runner in the Presence of the Lord. He cannot restrain himself; he rebelleth against the bounds set by nature, and struggleth to break out of the prison of the belly. His longing is to herald the coming Saviour. He saith, as it were: Behold, the Deliverer cometh and am I to remain still bound to abide here? The Word cometh, that He may set right all things and am I still to tarry in prison? I will go forth. I will run before Him, and cry aloud to all men: “Behold the Lamb of God Which taketh away the sin of the world.”

    But do thou tell us, O John, how it came to pass that while thou wast still in the darkness of thy mother's womb, thou didst see and hear? How didst thou behold the things of God? How didst thou leap and bound for joy? Great, saith John, is the mystery of that which taketh place here, far from the understanding of men are these doings. It is meet that I should do a new thing in nature for the sake of Him Who is making new things which are beyond nature. I see in the womb, because I see the Sun of righteousness in a womb. I hear, because I am coming as the herald of the Great Word. I cry out, because I espy the Only-begotten Son of the Father clad in Flesh. I bound for joy, because I see that He by Whom all things were made, hath taken upon Him the form of a servant. I leap, because I think of the Redeemer of the world being made Flesh. I run before His coming, and herald His approach unto you with this, as it were, my confession.


    Quaeritur:

    Is it ever appropriate to take portions of these texts and set them for Liturgical use (either at Matins or at Mass)?

    Does anyone know of a setting of these, either for Liturgical or non-liturgical use?
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 354
    Is it ever appropriate to take portions of these texts and set them for Liturgical use ... at Matins ...?


    No.
  • Igneus,

    They wouldn't replace the Propers, of course. Are they inappropriate to set and use by their nature?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    I don't see any at UF Motet database, but there seems ample precedent in the Matins Lessons for Christmas and the 1565 and 1582 Lessons for the Dead by Lassus, not to mention a certain venerable Holy Week tradition.
  • Richard,

    These were the texts (and music), but do you know if they were used liturgically or devotionally, or didactically or something else?
  • There is a certain tradition of polyphonic rendering of Matins lessons, e.g. Office of the Dead, Tenebrae. But also the 1st Nocturn of Christmas. If some parish celebrate them and has resources, why not? But these are biblical lessons. Never heard of patristic or hagiographic texts performed this way. Perhaps one can try out this with Vatican Press Office news release that makes up 2nd Nocturn of post-1955 May 1.
  • Andris,

    If the text is used liturgically, and if the Office is sung, couldn't it, theoretically, be sung with any appropriate musical form?
  • Christ, when I was in Italy I saw it done once- but Im not sure if that was a particular thing to their rite- it was Order of Carmel (calced) in Naples I believe.
  • Monastery Liturgist,
    Christ,

    Are you cursing, promoting me or merely having buttery fingers?
    Thanked by 1monasteryliturgist
  • !!!! thats so funny... Im going to blame not having coffee before posting- well Jesus is in you by the life of Grace I hope!
  • If the text is used liturgically, and if the Office is sung, couldn't it, theoretically, be sung with any appropriate musical form?

    Polyphony in orations (at Mass or Office) or prefaces (at Mass) probably not. I am not sure of lessons. Some thing that were done in Middle Ages for me go into nimis admirandum, non tamen imitandum category .
  • Andris,

    Ok, so one wouldn't sing the collect polyphonically. Might one sing these texts, though, at the Offertory, having completed the Propers?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    It’s weird to set the patristic text as a motet. But the Scriptural lessons? Why not?
  • Matthew,

    Help me understand that distinction. Each is a prescribed lection at Matins.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    CGZ

    Wow

    The text truly disarms (no, “demonizes”) abortion advocates. I would set it to polyphony and have it sung on the city streets in concert if nothing else... after the demons try to bury it (like they tried with John himself) the church might eventually sanction it eternal.

    Truth emerges and is canonized... don’t know if it happens the other way around.
  • Francis,

    One could almost imagine Advent Lessons and Carols based around a Song Cycle using this text.

    I lack the skill, the energy and the time to make a serious effort at such a project, but I might tackle some small part at some point, as an Advent motet.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    may I try my heart at the assistance of angels and hand? What are your Advent forces?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    I mean, all sorts of Scriptural texts were set as motets, though someone with more knowledge than me can explain what was and was not turned into a motet over the course of the "Renaissance" and into the Baroque era. In any case, that the church basically never allowed anyone to turn the patristic lessons into polyphonic pieces suggests that we just shouldn't do this… It is a less extreme example of the tricycle rule: nothing actually says that you can't use a tricycle for the parts of Mass which don't specify the action otherwise…
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 539
    I don’t see the obstacle? Many a “Jesu dulcis memoria” and “Corde natus” have been sung in addition to the propers at Mass or other liturgies, on days when these hymns are not prescribed, everywhere under the sun. Like the Matins responsory above, these nonscriptural texts are objectively orthodox and concordant with true doctrine to such a degree that the Church has made them officially part of her liturgy.