English chant
  • MoraMannyMoraManny
    Posts: 7
    Does anyone know where I could get the Vidi Aquam chant in English? I’m looking for one that is most faithful to the original Latin melody.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,040
    It depends on what you're looking for:

    If you don't mind "Prayer Book English" (Thee, Thy, Thou, -eth, -est), then try the version on pg. 104 of this English Kyrial (Douglas): https://media.musicasacra.com/books/ordinary_of_the_mass_english1933.pdf

    If you want the text to match the 2011 Roman Missal, then try Fr. Weber's version (which is also in The Proper of the Mass for Sundays and Solemnities, pg. 972), which can be found on pg. 7 of this file here: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=c2FjcmVkbXVzaWN1cy5vcmd8c2FjcmVkLW11c2ljLXVzfGd4OjFhM2NkOGNjM2NkNDVlNjQ
    Thanked by 1MoraManny
  • MoraMannyMoraManny
    Posts: 7
    Thank you! I think both will work. My plan is to have a small schola do the Latin chant then bring in the entire choir singing the English during the Sprinkling Rite for Easter Sunday.
    Thanked by 2RedPop4 tomjaw
  • RedPop4
    Posts: 42
    Manuel, best to you and your schola.
    T. Bender
    Thanked by 1MoraManny
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,900
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    That ICEL version is a rather unfortunate rendering. It has very little recourse to the original.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 747
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 330
    What’s wrong with just using the Latin? My first year in choir I had to sight sing the chant in Latin in chant notation during Mass on Easter Sunday having never sung it before, and I managed just fine with it.

    Why are we so afraid of Latin and treat it like this language that no one can pronounce? In secular choirs, you’re often required to sing in several different obscure languages including Swedish, Gaelic, and Swahili, including other languages. I just don’t understand this fear of singing in Latin as if it’s too hard.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 305
    I just don’t understand this fear of singing in Latin as if it’s too hard.


    The fact that the Missal includes the Latin chant for the Vidi Aquam, and only a simplified chant for the English, suggests that the mind of the Church is that if you want to use the Latin melodies you should just go ahead and do it with the Latin words. Nolite timere!
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins tomjaw
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 747
    .
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    I do wonder if the abhorrence for Latin is particularly acute within the English speaking world. English has strayed a good bit from any Latinate roots that may have once existed, whereas Spanish/French/Italian are substantially closer. (Really, anything Latinate about English is filtered through the intermediary of other langages and is not direct, which compounds this problem.) I imagine people who speak those languages natively have a much easier time deciphering Latin than anglos do. I was just comparing missa xviii in Spanish (as found in the Spanish missal) to the original the other day and they are comically close.
  • Serviam,

    The problem isn't the language the laity speak. Truly, the problems are 1) that Latin is no longer widely taught; and 2) that a certain segment of the Church, both clerics and laymen are constitutionally allergic to it.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    I understand all of that... but I suspect that the vehemence against Latin is amplified among anglos because there are no linguistic commonalities. Your first observation (that Latin is no longer widely taught) merely reinforces my observation, because it shows that without that education, english speakers have little recourse to natural understanding of latin.

    But in contrast to english (only) speakers, spanish speakers can darn near read the Sactus in Latin without any special study because the two languages are so similar (one having clearly been derived from the other). I doubt, therefore, that there exists the same level of anti-latin sentiment among spanish speakers although I'm [un]happy to be corrected.

    In the end, however, I agree: some people hate latin for what it is (an ancient sacred language), not because it is 'Latin'. One could substitute any other ancient language in it's place (Greek or Aramaic, for instance) and they would hate that too.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,601
    No, I think it's amplified there too. I can think of a number of places in the Hispanophone world where bishops are draconian towards Latin, no matter the form of the liturgy.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MoraMannyMoraManny
    Posts: 7
    To clarify a couple of things: People at my parish are not afraid of Latin. We sing the Propers in Latin from the Gradual at the Solemn Mass every Sunday. My choir has learned plenty of Latin in my 5 months of being at the parish. They have learned the Sequence in Latin, they are singing Lotti's Regina Coeli on Easter Sunday, and are singing more things than I have the energy to write on here. The reason for the English is that I am not going to give them more than they can learn since at the end of the day the English is easier to sing. We are doing the Latin because I find it important that the people (and choir) at least hear the original Latin melodies.