Ave Maria by Rosewig
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 624
    I thought I would share this with you video with you. Years ago when I sang in St. Mary's Choir, I sang a hymn Ave Maria composed by Albert Rosewig, sometimes before Mass or during communion. The first video memorializes the parish I grew up in and some of the choir members, its a cassette recording from 1980s. The second link is version of the hymn sung by a full choir. I have never heard this sung by a full choir and they do a beautiful job. It's a beautiful testament to Our Lady and the beauty of this hymn. Don't you agree.

    https://youtu.be/kdkIk-_Zf7I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDU-SzIMLos
  • A voice from a bygone age... I find this kind of recording so evocative. Just conjures up the sense of such a simplicity of faith, back when that was possible. I’ve always enjoyed the old recordings of the Men and Boys Choir from St Mary in Massillon, OH from the same era.

    Cardinal O’Connell, “Juravit Dominos”

    Thank you for sharing. You couldn’t find this in a millennium by searching.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 624
    NihilNominis, I have a CD of St. Mary in Massillon with a number of beautiful hymns including Juravit Dominos from the author who posted that video on YouTube.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,144
    42: - 44:

    Queen Bohemiam Rhapsody
  • The Rosewig estate should sue the Mercury estate for infringement of copyright.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores tomjaw
  • Apart from the fact that I find his melodies rather pedestrian (I went through his other stuff on ISMLP) that accompaniment figure popped out to me immediately, and on that basis alone, I would either have to rearrange it or simply not sing it at Mass, as too many people will recognize that lick immediately.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw francis
  • This and other works like it from the Dark Age of American Catholicism need to be consigned to the dust bin. They were so easily replaced in the hearts of Catholics by SLJ music for good reason.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 624
    You can trash this beautiful hymn all you want, it won't diminish that this choir did a beautiful job singing this arrangement in honor of Our Lady and judging from the response of the congregation at this event says they most heartily agree. Don't underestimate the providence that can come from hearing beautiful hymns by accomplished composers like Rosewig and his contemporaries. When I sang this hymn at mass it was greatly appreciated.
    Thanked by 1oldhymns
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 194
    What is the "Dark Age of American Catholicism?"
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,183
    Schonbergian appears to be a troll, unless he has direct (infused??) knowledge of how many souls were saved then as opposed to souls saved post-SLJ's.
    Thanked by 1oldhymns
  • francis
    Posts: 10,144
    Don

    I did not intend to belittle the piece or the devotion to Our Lady... be it never! ANYTHING that brings ANYONE to be more devoted, more holy, more pure, is certainly a wonderful and worthy thing. I was simply making an observation that was glaring to me... mea culpa.

    Truth of the matter is that Queen may have unconsciously lifted the phrase from this very piece. So, the offender is most assuredly the rock group.
    Thanked by 2Don9of11 oldhymns
  • Schonbergian appears to be a troll, unless he has direct (infused??) knowledge of how many souls were saved then as opposed to souls saved post-SLJ's.
    I don't see what the salvation of souls has to do with good or bad music, as if the only reason we elevate i.e. chant is because it directly saves souls. That hardly makes me a "troll".
    What is the "Dark Age of American Catholicism?"

    The period from about 1880 to 1950 where banal music was promulgated by the self-appointed czars of Catholic music and enforced by partisan blacklists. How anyone could look at the age that produced Fr. Rossini's music and his antics as some sort of high point for American Catholicism is a mystery to me.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • francis
    Posts: 10,144
    I don't see what the salvation of souls has to do with good or bad music, as if the only reason we elevate i.e. chant is because it directly saves souls.
    Then I see you and those who subscribe to your thinking as simply naive.

    You can not separate the patrimony of chant from the theology of the Mass, nor the spiritual efficacy that it (married to the TLM) produces. Period.

    I say this as a DoM having lived and breathed the N.O. for nearly 50 years and then FINALLY arrived home (to the TLM) in my waning years. Don't get me started.
  • davido
    Posts: 694
    I almost commented on this thread last night, but in light of that other thread that complained this forum is too critical, I refrained. However, since someone else already started…

    I mean no disrespect to the early posters in this thread, to whom O’Connell and Rosewig represent an era in which respect and devotion were practiced in Catholic churches, when faith was respected, and when artistic values included beauty and artistry. All which are goods.

    However, as music goes, the pieces in the links above are pretty lousy music. They seem calculated to offer a pius soundscape with no particularly interesting musical features.
    The harmony is heavily indebted to bel canto opera, but without the melodic gift of the great bel canto composers. Chromaticism is used not for rhetorical effect, but as a way to get to the next chord. The text is repeated over and over without any clear rhetorical or formal reason in the music.

    When this music was written, it was the cutting edge of church music and comparable to music being written in France by Niedermeyer, Benoist, etc. so in it’s time and context, I don’t want to be too critical of it. And in the videos it is well performed.
    But, in an age that is post- Saint-Saens and Vaughan Williams, after the major contributions to sacred music of Benedictine chant scholars, French organists, and English choirmasters, I really don’t understand why Catholics would want to promote Rosewig and O’Connell.
    When people do promote it, it suggests to me that perhaps there is a lack of familiarity with the truly great sacred music of the last 150 years? Or that nostalgia for pre-conciliar sanity (which I share!) clouds the musical judgment.
    Thanked by 1Schönbergian
  • At the very least, we can agree (I hope) that the recording resurrected by the OP is well played and well sung, so it is beautiful for what it is, even if it isn’t everyone’s favorite composition. (The parish is lovely too.)
  • The period from about 1880 to 1950 where banal music was promulgated by the self-appointed czars of Catholic music and enforced by partisan blacklists. How anyone could look at the age that produced Fr. Rossini's music and his antics as some sort of high point for American Catholicism is a mystery to me.


    "High point for American Catholicism" /= "High point for American Catholic music."
    "Publisher-driven repertoire" didn't begin in 1964.
    Interestingly, those 2 dates bookend the careers of Bruno Oscar Klein and Eugeniusz Walkiewicz, so real music was being produced (and a few others of lesser but passable quality). The problem is that better music requires people capable of performing it, and those have always been in short supply here. And our understanding of the period is very publisher-mediated; consider Europe's riches of manuscript sacred music compared to that of the US.

    As for Rosewig, I can be both unenthused by his music, and understanding of why others are enthused. There's a kind of appealing directness to it. That's such a Catholic thing: the Sistine chapel vs. billboards of neo-Aztec imagery of the Sacred Heart. The Church has never been at its best when attempting to legislate good taste.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,183
    I don't see what the salvation of souls has to do with good or bad music


    You referred to "the dark age of American Catholicism," NOT "American church music." That's why I responded as I did. Perhaps I should have read 'music' into your formula.

    But why 'read in'? There is only ONE objective to Catholicism, which is the salvation of souls. Not producing 'great music,' although it certainly did so. Not producing world-class philosophers, although it did so. None of that will ever be the objective.

    So when you assert that it was a 'dark age,' you must know that the Church was not saving souls due to the music OR you know that the SLJ music effects the salvation of MORE souls, proportionately.

    Do you know that?

    One doesn't have to like Rosewig, nor the abominable babble-twatter SLJ music, nor does one have to despise either.

    One only has to count souls saved. THAT is the measure of 'the age.'
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist