Novus Ordo Sacred Music Workshop in Melbourne - your opinions?
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Please consider before responding that this is a course primarily about music for Novus Ordo. I understand this will trigger people (it has indeed plucked my tridentine heartstrings in a bit of a nasty way) but let's just keep the politics aside for a second and discuss from a post VatII perspective please.

    Let's pretend for a second that VatII ideals were not run off with by randoms who wanted to meet their own agenda... does this course look like it embodies how Novus Ordo sacred music should be?
    Does it, from the outside, look like the presenters have a personal agenda or does it look realistically like it is truly designed to be surrounding Church documents of Vat II? I suppose that is my question.

    My concerns are that some of the presenters are musicians pushing indigenous music in their own music ministry and this filtering into this course. But I am biased because I know some of the presenters and I dislike some of the directions they are moving in.

    https://www.acu.edu.au/about-acu/institutes-academies-and-centres/acu-centre-for-liturgy/professional-development

    What do you think? From the outset to me it looks like perhaps a step in at least a direction the Church in Melbourne needs. We need music education for our musicians and I am glad the Church has listened. I have been begging for a while for education to take off down here.

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Music is an integral part of the Church’s liturgy – a living art form that voices the Church’s prayer and theology in an unsurpassable way.


    True.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Topics include:

    Liturgy and liturgical principles
    The sacramentality of religious leadership
    Celebrating masses with young children: top ten hints
    Celebrating non-sacramental liturgies in school communities
    Exploring the Directory for Masses with Children and the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children
    How to celebrate well in Catholic schools
    Engaging youth in liturgical celebrations
    Liturgical music for primary schools
    Sacraments of initiation
    Sacraments of healing.


    They're all worthy topics, but since I don't know more about the philosophical approach (yet) of the folks preparing the talks, I can see very easily how things could go off the rails.
    Thanked by 2drforjc ServiamScores
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    https://www.acu.edu.au/-/media/feature/pagecontent/about/institutes-academies-and-centres/acu-centre-for-liturgy/session-descriptions.pdf

    To me, the detailed description of the sessions indicates that this is a thorough seminar rooted in Church teaching on liturgical music. Seems they use Joncas’ From Sacred Song to Ritual Music as their basis. I like the ‘theology of music/music as theology’ approach.

    On the other hand, I don't know the presenters and how they interpret Church teaching on liturgical music. A session on ‘Textless Music in Worship’ and other topics like ‘supporting the assembly’s sense of corporate identity’ make me cringe a little bit, though it could turn out well.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 438
    some of the presenters are musicians pushing indigenous music in their own music ministry


    Even apart from the course, this interesting: please tell us more about the indigenous music in the Australian church.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,806
    Digeridoo pipe organ?
    Thanked by 2JonathanLC tomjaw
  • JonathanLCJonathanLC
    Posts: 75
    I am also quite interested in the approach to indigenous music. Any more information would be very much welcome. Though I find myself doing a masters in Afrikaans Orthodox music, this might give me some ideas to mull over.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Look into the Archdiocese of Melbourne for the expertise on Indigenous Catholic music. I personally prefer a different style but they do the least kitch/tokenistic job of it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    "Least kitch/tokenistic job"
    How sad that one must damn with faint praise.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    How sad when the majority of the indigenous community I have met don't actually want their rituals embedded in the liturgy and aspire to learn the traditions of the Catholic faith but this is ignored and cultural appropriation ends up being the approach to such an extent that kitsch/tokenism is the only way to describe what usually happens. The Director at Melbourne does a good job to avoid this as much as possible - but it does creep in everywhere a little bit.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jes,

    I think I understand you to say:

    1) The indigenous populations don't want their cultural rituals embedded in the liturgy.
    2) Non-indigenous people keep trying (awkwardly but self-congratulatorially) to embed these rituals in the liturgy.
    3) The indigenous populations want to learn the traditions of the Catholic faith.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,460
    CGZ, I think Jes is too smart to say the - people want.
    As (in one version) the saying is 'two economists, three opinions'.
    I have a friend, native of the Island, with 2 degrees in Manx studies, and currently researching several aspects, but who is wholly averse to the language.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    I'm saying that many of indigenous people I personally know would prefer chant and polyphony in mass over and above didgeridoo at mass. I can't speak about the whole. Every group is different, some very culturally different to each other. Much like how each parish here is culturally different here.
    Yes, there are some non-indigenous people trying to bring in all sorts of things in the name of inclusion, it comes from a good place, a place of love, but it can be offensive especially if done in ignorance or without consultation.
    For example a woman shouldn't play the didgeridoo...
    I'd hesitate to generalise about the population on their wants...
    Some Indigenous Catholics who I know personally attend the Tridentine Mass and cringe when they hear about some of the things that happen elsewhere. Some Indigenous people I know are not Catholic and want to keep their culture and the Church separate. I'm yet to personally meet indigenous people who want to merge anything beyond perhaps the use of indigenous vernacular from their area.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen a_f_hawkins
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