Sound of Music Wedding processional
  • Jeanne
    Posts: 5
    I have a bride that wants the Sound of Music wedding processional as her walking in music. Not the part where they sing "How do you solve a problem....". Is this piece allowed in an EF Traditional Catholic Ceremony?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 241
    It’s a secular piece of music from a movie, so I would say no to the bride (or suggest something better and more appropriate).
    Thanked by 2francis Jeanne
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,546
    ...the chord progression in the beginning is the same as the chord progression that accompanies the melody... I don't think there is any getting away from it being a secular piece.
    Thanked by 1Jeanne
  • Anna_BendiksenAnna_Bendiksen
    Posts: 82
    Oh my.

    Francis is quite right; in the movie, there is a section in which "How do you solve...?" is sung in counterpoint to this processional. Imagine if one were to use it in an actual wedding and some musically literate guests who had already had a few were to pick up on this, jumping right in with the part of the nuns.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 671
    If Wagner's Bridal Chorus has ever been used or is still used, then certainly the piece from "The Sound of Music" would be acceptable and even better. I consider it a minor thing. I'd play it for her.
  • Anna_BendiksenAnna_Bendiksen
    Posts: 82
    musically literate guests who had already had a few

    I meant Episcopalians
  • davido
    Posts: 506
    The music itself is dignified and worthy of the liturgy, in fact Rogers wrote the theme in a style that would be recognized as church music.
    However, the connotations with the story of that particular stage play/movie would put the piece on almost any sacred music blacklist.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,546
    Wagner's Bridal Chorus is not acceptable at weddings. Neither is R&H. (That, of course, may not apply in certain NO celebrations. I don't think there is a blacklist for the NO. Davido, correct me if I am wrong.)
  • Skladach
    Posts: 18
    Years ago I attended a wedding for which the bride arrived very late. While waiting, after a few extra soothing preludes, the organist started to play a virtuoso, manically happy classical piece; about a minute into it the pedals intoned the Big Ben theme....
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,023
    I would not consider doing this, and would with an air of deep respect tell the bride so - because it is a secular song written for a musical and in a scene far from the sacred precincts of God's house and the church. This must be said with absolute respect and kindliness, Most brides will understand and stand down. A few will run to father and complain. Some priests will back you up. Others will pull the rug out from under you. The really difficult ones are those who bring their formidable mothers to the consultation in an attempt to be overpowering and see that things turn out as desired. Be firm and hold your ground.

    I once had a friend from Germany, one Klaus Kratzenstein by name, a man prodigiously gifted at improvisation, who was delighted to tell me that the bride wanted Wagner - so he improvised a postlude in XVIIIth century style and buried Wagner unrecognisably within a rhythmically complex texture. Klaus was the only person I ever knew who could improvise on the spot a trio sonata that one could hardly tell from Bach. If you are good enough you could take a cue from Klaus.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    Not my favorite piece, to be sure. But how is it worse than the "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba?" That seems to show up in nearly every wedding.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,546
    Never heard or was requested the QOS
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    Interesting, Francis. QOS and the Pachelbel Canon get played in most weddings I have had any association with.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,791
    At least the Second Overture in the Oratorio 'Solomon', to give QOS its full title, is from a choral work on the biblical history of King Solomon. Oratorio music is tricky, because it occupies a middle way between sacred and secular. If given the option, I would do Queen of Sheba over Sound of Music.
    Thanked by 1sdtalley3
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,073
    And QoS was a movie...........when?
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,358
    QoS was used in the soundtrack for "Four Weddings and a Funeral", one of the many wedding-climax movies (this has ... four) that mould the What I Want Is lists of erstwhile director-screenwriter-special effects-leading persons (and sometimes even producers) for a long time now. Movies have been far more influential than ritual books, no matter how much older the latter are.

    How many Catholic wedding processions (not recessionals) have you witnessed with the bride and groom taking their place together at the end of the procession? I've seen some, but it's still relatively rare.

  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 525
    The underlying problem is that the Sound of Music does hit the nail on the head for something that works for a wedding processional... and leaves us trying to figure out what pieces there are in the repertoire that can live up to that impression. I have come across relatively few pieces with that type of thick rolling processional chords, and then there is the difficulty that a bridal processional usually only needs a very short piece.

    Some that come to mind:

    Bach: Fantasie in G maj. (has the texture, but is extremely long)
    Mendelssohn: Prelude in G maj. (a bit long, and what do you do to get in the fugue later?)
    DuMage: Plein jeu (but have to sell the bride on the minor key)
    Boellman: Chorale from Suite Gothique (but is minor)
    Mendelssohn: Andante Religioso from Organ Sonata IV (effective, but is more subdued)

    And one I have not tried but is on my radar h/t to @NihilNominis:

    Merkel: Allegro Risoluto, Op. 156, No. 7

    Do you folk have any more?

    [Forgot to add - Theodore Dubois: Grand Choeur, but that is also a bit long, I have instead used it for recessional.]
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 167
    I think it's possible to dissociate the organ piece from the musical -- but on a practical level, is the minute-ish of non-sung music enough? In my parish (with a relatively short center aisle), it's close but not quite.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • LarsLars
    Posts: 59
    whats this piece of music?
  • LarsLars
    Posts: 59
    I found this book - The Essential Organist by Kevin Mayhew
    It says "The purpose of this collection is to provide under one cover the music most regularly requested for weddings and funerals."

    Here is the full list of pieces in this book if anyone's interested:

    A memorial piece - Parry
    Adagietto from Symphony No. 5 - Mahler
    Adagio for Strings - Barber
    Adagio from Clarinet Concerto - Mozart
    Adagio from Violin Concerto No. 1 - Bruch
    Air from Suite No. 3 - Bach
    Alleluia from 'Exultate Jubilate' - Mozart
    Andante from Piano Concerto No. 21 - Mozart
    Andante from String Quartet No. 1 - Schubert
    Andante tranquillo - Warlock
    Angel's Farewell from 'The Dream of Gerontius' - Elgar
    Arioso - Bach
    Arrival of the Queen of Sheba - Handel
    Ashokan Farewell - Ungar
    Au fond du temple saint from 'The Pearl Fishers' - Bizet
    Ave Maria - Gounod
    Ave verum corpus - Mozart
    Behold, a rose is blooming - Brahms
    Bist du bei mir - Bach
    Bridal March from 'Lohengrin' - Wagner
    Canon in D - Pachelbel
    Cantique de Jean Racine - Fauré
    Chanson de Matin - Elgar
    Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves from 'Nabucco' - Verdi
    Cujus animam - Rossini
    Danny Boy - Traditional
    Finale from Trumpet Concerto - Haydn
    First Movement from 'Moonlight' Sonata - Beethoven
    First Movement from Symphony No. 40 - Mozart
    Gavotte - Boyce
    Gavotte from French Suite No. 5 - Bach
    Gavotte from Suite No. 3 - Bach
    Gymnopédie I - Satie
    Hornpipe humoresque - Rawsthorne
    How lovely are thy dwellings from 'Requiem' - Brahms
    I know that my Redeemer liveth from 'Messiah' - Handel
    Intermezzo from 'Cavalleria Rusticana' - Mascagni
    Jesu, joy of man's desiring - Bach
    Jupiter from 'The Planets' - Holst
    Komm, süsser Tod - Bach
    Largo from Concerto in D minor - Vivaldi
    Largo from 'Serse' - Handel
    Laudate Dominum from 'Solemn Vespers' - Mozart
    March from 'Occasional Oratorio' - Handel
    March from 'Scipio' - Handel
    Marche Militaire - Schubert
    Meditation from 'ThaÝs' - Massenet
    Menuet - Handel
    Miserere - Allegri
    Nessun dorma from 'Turandot' - Puccini
    Nimrod from 'Enigma Variations' - Elgar
    O for the wings of a dove - Mendelssohn
    O my soul rejoice with gladness - Karg-Elert
    O rest in the Lord from 'Elijah' - Mendelssohn
    Ode to Joy from Symphony No. 9 - Beethoven
    Panis angelicus - Franck
    Pavane - Fauré
    Pavane pour une infante défunte - Ravel
    Pie Jesu from 'Requiem' - Fauré
    Prelude from 'Te Deum' - Charpentier
    Prelude in A - Chopin
    Prelude in C minor - Chopin
    Radetzky March - Strauss
    Romanze from 'Eine kleine Nachtmusik' - Mozart
    Salut d'amour - Elgar
    Second movement from 'Pathétique' Sonata - Beethoven
    Serenade from String Quartet Op. 3, No. 5 - Haydn
    Sheep may safely graze - Bach
    Siciliana from Concerto No. 5 - Handel
    Solemn melody - Davies
    Sortie in Bb - Lefébure-Wély
    Summertime from 'Porgy and Bess' - Gershwin
    The banks of Green Willow - Butterworth
    The Entertainer - Joplin
    The Four Seasons - Vivaldi
    The Swan from 'Carnival of the Animals' - Saint-Saëns
    Theme and Variation from the 'Trout' Quintet - Schubert
    Theme from 'Finlandia' - Sibelius
    Theme from First Movement of Cello Concerto - Elgar
    Theme from Second Movement of Symphony No. 9 'From the New World' - Dvor˘ák
    Theme from Third Movement of Symphony No. 2 - Rachmaninoff
    Themes from First Movement of Piano Concerto No. 2 - Rachmaninoff
    Themes from 'Rhapsody in Blue' - Gershwin
    To a wild rose - MacDowell
    Toccata from Symphony No. 5 - Widor
    Traümerei - Schumann
    Trumpet tune and air - Purcell
    Trumpet voluntary - Clarke
    Urlicht from Symphony No. 2 'Resurrection' - Mahler
    Water Music - Handel
    Menuets I and II
    Hornpipe I
    Hornpipe II
    Wedding March from 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' - Mendelssohn
    Zadok the Priest - Handel
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 950
    I'd like to see a wedding where they process in to Zadok and out to the Chorus of Hebrew Slaves, I would.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    What? No Diane Bish wedding book? Is outrage! Heresy!

    In my parish (with a relatively short center aisle), it's close but not quite.

    Unless you are in a huge cathedral church, you may not make it beyond the first page of the processional. Tim is correct.

    I'd like to see a wedding where they process in to Zadok and out to the Chorus of Hebrew Slaves, I would.

    I normally didn't play for weddings but did on one occasion for a family friend. The bride's father requested the Halleluiah Chorus for the recessional. I wondered if he was expressing relief that the daughter was now someone else's problem.
    Thanked by 2Liam tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 241
    Pie Jesu from 'Requiem' - Fauré

    I suppose the inclusion of funeral music at a wedding is to emphasize that marriage is about dying to oneself.

    Unless you are in a huge cathedral church, you may not make it beyond the first page of the processional.

    It’s all about creatively dragging out the processional for as long as possible. I sang at a wedding where the bride requested Pomp and Circumstance (yes, the song they play at every graduation ceremony) and dragged out the processional for over four minutes in a church where it takes only 30 seconds to process down the aisle.

    The bride's father requested the Halleluiah Chorus for the recessional. I wondered if he was expressing relief that the daughter was now someone else's problem.

    Probably. That sounds like something my dad would do.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,546
    I could compose a book of 10 pieces that would be suitable, but...
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,159
    I (because I learned it as an oboist) love Arrival of the Queen of Sheeba, and don't gave a problem with it as a wedding motet, as long as it isn't butchered. It's still just not the same, though.

    As far as the Sound of Music procession... I think it sounds lovely, there's no reason it can't finish without problems like Maria. I'm really tired of hearing Sheep May Safely Graze

    However, what I've always wanted to hear from this film is the "Alleluia" that the nuns sing after/as part of their morning prayer (, because it is such a beautiful piece of music.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    I am surprised many younger people have even heard of the Sound of Music. It is getting, like the rest of us, a bit old by now.

    And yes, those sheep need to graze in another pasture along with the Queen of Sheba.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,219
    Okay, I didn't remember the Sound of Music procession, so I listened to it. It's not that great.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    I didn't remember it either until this post appeared. I have heard worse, but also much better.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,159
    Yes, the first thing that always comes to my mind, as regards anything but the "songs" of the Sound of Music, are those beautiful alleluias!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    I need to see that again. It's been too many years. I still have a book autographed by Maria von Trapp when she visited my town during my teen years.

    Living in the allergy capital of the world, or so it seems, I often said that if they ever do a musical based on my life, they will call it the Sound of Mucus.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,687
    ... if they ever do a musical based on my life, they will call it the Sound of Mucus.

    That snot good.
    What snot to like?
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Carol
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    During my teaching days, one of my elementary grade students asked, "What is the cow's favorite musical?"

    He answered, "the sound of moosic."
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Carol
  • Carol
    Posts: 690
    I taught a bunch of parochial school girls to sing that "Alleluia" from "The Sound of Music." They were very amateur singers and most had never sung in parts before. I made cassette tapes of myself singing the four parts and sent them to 4 corners of the gym to practice. It turned out quite well. By the way, I have very little formal training in music and pick out melodies slowly on the piano. As you can tell, I was very proud of that accomplishment. It just proves how important it is to set the bar high.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,223
    As one demented sister told me, the "newer" music is ideal for children since they are not able to do the more difficult music yet. I told her that if she only taught them inferior music that is all they would ever know.
  • KARU27
    Posts: 151
    I am surprised many younger people have even heard of the Sound of Music. It is getting, like the rest of us, a bit old by now.

    Oh every "wholesome" type parent no doubt has it on DVD (or whatever digital format). My kids loved it, and now they're 15-21 years old. So it's not surprising to me that "wholesome" EF-type young people would know and love Sound of Music.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,023
    ...set the bar high...


    ... that is all they would ever know...
    As I have said a number of times on our Forum, it is not the children or the people, but the limitations of the teachers, the musical directors, the parents, or the priests, who consciously or unconsciously assume that a given music can't be learnt by the children or the people or whoever because they themselves are not competent to teach it or pass it down, don't know it themselves, or simply don't like it. The children, the people, or whoever can learn most anything a competent and enthusiastic teacher wishes to teach. Those who perpetuate the lie that the children or the people can't do such and such are a curse upon the children, the people, the Church, and upon society at large. The lamentably sad outcome of this is that they produce yet another generation of cultural ignoramuses who will do the same job on their children - and on and on.

    Isn't it odd that right after hearing children sing with authority a piece of real music or chant a mother or father will stand there and say 'that's too hard for them - they can't do that'? - right after having heard them do ut,

    Debussy once said through the mouth of a character in a play that he wrote, 'we shall all die, and we shall die suggocated under the the pall of mediocrity under which we live'.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,546
    produce yet another generation of cultural ignoramuses

    the final generation of this error is in the que