Requiem in G minor

johnpb

Hello all, I've been working on a Requiem Mass a bit and I'm looking for some feedback, this is the Kyrie here. I also have the Sanctus and Agnus Dei if anyone is interested..

Pax Christi,
John

irishtenor

First, I listened to the mp3 and it is definitely a cool-sounding piece of music, so it has that going for it.

Second, I am not a composer, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but several things leap out at me, just looking at the piece:
---The range of the bass is too low for most basses to sing. Most bass parts bottom out at F, or maybe even G, in order to enable baritones to sing the part. The low D's and E-flats will be out of reach of most bass-part singers.
---The range of the soprano goes too high. Going up to a B-flat above the staff is stratospheric for many folks who sing soprano in choirs. They may (or may not!) be able to vocalize to that note, but wouldn't be able to sing it attractively, confidently, and comfortably.
---Having the tenors go down to a B-flat is pretty darn low for them.
---Have you tried to sing each of the parts? There are a lot of skips/leaps, which is going to make it harder to sing, when compared to parts which have primarily step-wise movement. A few examples of tricky parts I can see at a quick glance are...
1) Tenors have descending 7ths in measures 2 and 15-16
2) Tenors have an ascending augmented 5th from m. 14 into 15
3) Sopranos have an ascending tritone in m. 17

johnpb

@irishtenor thank you
I'm not either heh, that's why i asked for help
with the Basses i was kind of basing the range off of the basses i know who wouldn't have trouble with that, but i forgot about the baritones, i could maybe split the part for such...
with the Sopranos I figured if I stayed below Allegri's C in Miserere Mei Deus it would be ok, but to be fair the sopranos do have trouble sustaining that (the countertenor I know can sing it better haha)
again with the Tenors i was basing it off of tenors that i know, but they could probably have a lower range than most
I realized that after unfortunately.... I could /probably/ rearrange it to make easier in that aspect, but yeah, for sure it would be difficult to learn (and teach)

thanks again!

Schönbergian

These are the kind of ranges you would see in heavily orchestrated works with plenty of support for the singers - not unaccompanied works like this. In particular, getting the level of sound you want in that bass range will be incredibly challenging.

I will send over more detailed comments in a bit.

M. Jackson Osborn

...descending 7ths...

Well (tee-hee), there is precedence for those - at least one precedent that I know of. The only parallel sevenths I have encountered are in the first verset of the Kyrie Cunctipotens in Pierre Attaingnant's Tablature pour le jeu d'orgue... of 1531.

Actually, this Kyrie sounds better than it looks, though it's a 'little' harmonically static - which gives it sort of a quasi organum feel. As for the voice parts, I wouldn't change them - they really define the piece. All that is needed are a couple of Russian basses and a few English choir boys.

francis

...yea, i thought it had a russian influence also.

johnpb

thought i would share the Sanctus and Agnus Dei, I'm sure they have similar mistakes but might as well get your input
one thing i know i was having trouble with was the timing

Pax Christi

johnpb

@M. Jackson Osborn
haha I thought i was being generous to the basses, at the moment we're working on Pavel Chesnekov's "Tebe Poyem" which calls for the basses to hit an A

Schönbergian

Out of curiosity, what is your personal voice type? Baritone?

Chrism

For the Agnus, I was hoping to see the traditional Requiem Mass endings - e.g., dona eis requiem, dona eis requiem sempiternam.

johnpb

@Chrism Mea Culpa, that was an oversight on my part

johnpb

@Schonbergian I've been a bass for about 6 years, but lately I've been singing more tenor and even counter-tenor a bit, largely out of necessity

Anna_Bendiksen

As a former director of a Russian chorus, I have just one word for those who want the basses to go lower:

Vodka.

M. Jackson Osborn

I think that your work is really nice. I especially like the very high, late mediaeval and early renaissonce sounding treble parts, and the low bass parts, which really give a very resonant, rich texture. My suggestion, though, to give greater formal shape and interest, would be for you to explore a more varied and venturesome harmonic palette. As it is, your work could be said to be quite static and lacking in development - it doesn't 'go anywhere' and return. Though your work is very interesting as it is, with its hearkening to late mediaeval and renaissance textures, it would profit form a less 'home bound' vocabulary. All that said, I really like your work and find it quite stimulating.

The comments about the extreme bass and treble parts being out of range for many basses and sopranos are well taken. You might compensate for this by adding a first bass and a second soprano part. This would, of course, add to your creative challenges, but would preserve that admirable richness that you have achieved - and reinforce your renaissance textural references. But, by all means, leave the current highs and lows as they are. They are highly stimulating and rarely heard nowadays, except in very early music.

CHGiffen

Following on irishtenor's list of tricky parts:
4) Basses have ascending tritone in m.1
5) Basses have ascending diminished 4th in m.2
6) Soranos have another ascending tritone in m.16
7) Altos have an ascending tritone in m.17 (parallel tritone leaps with the Soprano tritone leap in the same measure)

There are also several parallel 5ths & octaves that weaken the texture quite a bit (in addition to the Soprano-Alto parallel tritones mentioned above):
1) Soprano-Bass parallel 5ths in m.3 (beats 3-4)
2) Alto-Bass parallel octaves from m.9 (beat 1) through m.10 (beat 1)
3) Soprano-Bass parallel 5ths m.10 (beats 2-3)
4) Soprano-Bass parallel octaves m.1 (beats 1-2-3)
5) Soprano-Bass parallel 5ths m.14 (beats 2-3)
6) Alto-Tenor parallel octaves m.16 (beats 2-3)
7) Soprano-Tenor parallel octaves m.17 (beats 2-3)

I agree with MJO's comment on your harmonic palette being somewhat constrained. Moreover, dissonant chords (diminished and other choices) seem, at least to me, to appear at random, rather than by some sort of logic. Whether this is because of your somewhat unusual (and difficult) voice leading choices or not, I don't know. Choral writing such as this requires attention to several layers of detail: voice-leading, harmonic progression (and harmonic rhythm), interrelation and balance of the separate voices.

The wide range of voices in four part music such as this is rather unusual, too. While Mezzo-sopranos can sing the Alto part, the Baritone voices are left to scramble between the Tenor and Bass parts. The Bass is really a Bass II part, whilst the Soprano is really a Soprano I part.

I haven't had time to look at the Sanctus & Agnus Dei.

francis

Choral writing such as this requires attention to several layers of detail: voice-leading, harmonic progression (and harmonic rhythm), interrelation and balance of the separate voices.

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