Who is responsible for letting David Haas be a predator for 40 years?
  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 259
    In discussions on this forum and elsewhere on the internet, it's become clear that a number of people are aware of individuals who could have stopped David Haas but chose not to. I was wondering if anyone would dare to speak openly about who these people are. I think that it is important not only that David Haas' music be removed from the public life of the Church, but also that the people who chose their own convenience over the safety of the women he abused be removed from any and all positions of authority.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW mattebery
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    I understand and even agree but...there was money to be made by the publishers and the hacks who organize conventions. Money wins the day.
    Thanked by 1MAR
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    I'm not sure that Naming Names in a public forum is to the benefit of anyone.
    Thanked by 2chonak Don9of11
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    Public forum? Yes, but I don't think this forum has that kind of exposure or effect. This was evidently public knowledge long before I heard of it. Seems I am always the last to hear everything. As I have noted here and elsewhere, even if he was a saint his music still wasn't appropriate for the mass. For some, posting here may be a case of "We come to share our story," but I am willing to refer David to the "Healing River" and now he will remain there..
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,078
    If you read the survivor stories at Into Account, several names of GIA composers and close collaborators are revealed to have been enablers who overlooked what they knew, heard, saw or personally experienced themselves because to confront David or to do something effective to stop his behavior would have meant the end of their rising composing and publishing and performing careers. The larger implication from the reports is that everyone within the inner circle at GIA knew.

    "You mean he's doing it again?" and "That's just David being David," seem to have been frequent remarks made to women who raised concerns with people closely connected to GIA and the liturgical music publishing inner circle. They knew and they did nothing until it became a problematic public relations matter.

    It's been settled concerning David. Now people similarly need to avoid using music composed by his ex-wife, his teen camp co-director, and generally avoid using anything from GIA. As Charles said above, the quality of their music is lousy anyway, but now there are additional reasons to find substitutes if anyone was inclined to use their music.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,930
    Naming Names


    Why not call this game “Where’s Gesualdo?”

    Oh, wait. Because Carlo actually wrote good music. That’s why.
    Thanked by 3Liam tandrews Viola
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    Apologies if this is slightly off-topic, but I thought it's worth mentioning:

    NPM just launched a new music planning calendar alongside LiturgyHelp as part of their "premium content" (i.e. members only) section. Of course you can filter suggestions by hymnals/collections you have, etc. One of the sections under "Manage your account" actually allows you to suppress suggestions from given composers/authors. I just went into it for the first time, and David Haas' box is checked by default.
    Thanked by 1MarkB
  • francis
    Posts: 10,806
    I checked off the entire NPM box years ago
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 259
    What's frustrating for me is that it's clear that an inner circle of GIA/NPM people were in the know about David Haas for years. The struggle for me is that almost none of these people have been identified. As it relates to GIA, I can't tell whether it was composers, and if so which composers, or whether it was also people who were employees of GIA, and if so how far this info made it up the food chain in GIA. GIA is currently conducting an independent investigation, so hopefully we'll know the truth about this soon.

    A GIA composer is an independent contractor having little to do with the daily happenings of the company, which is a major complicating factor.

    Marty Haugen and Michal Joncas spent years touring the country with David Haas, and I think that they owe us an explanation about what they knew and when.

    I think that there are people who read this forum who know things, and I would encourage them to share. I think that the only way to bring justice to this tragedy is to break the culture of silence.
    Thanked by 6Caleferink CCooze mattebery irishtenor ServiamScores PolskaPiano
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,086
    When I scanned the individual reports, the only composer named who had been reported to have received complaints appeared to be Gary Daigle, but I admit I didn't do a deep enough read to certify that.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,460
    Of course standards of behaviour and general social attitudes change over time, and quite rapidly. When I was a schoolboy, beating with a cane was a common punishment for trangressions and failures. Then it went out of fashion, and in many places is now illegal. 150 years ago the proverb "spare the rod and spoil the child" would be universal wisdom.
    NAB Hebrews 12:6 for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges."
    40 years ago Haas's overt behaviour would not have been seen as an outrage.
    Thanked by 2chonak bjbouwer
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    Let's recognize that "knowing about" someone's bad behavior may not be the same as being able to prove that it happened. And the proof might be necessary if the perpetrator chose to sue his accusers, claiming slander.

    I expect the worst of the behavior happened in settings without any witnesses; so only the victims of abuse would be in a position to speak out about it.
    Thanked by 6CHGiffen Liam WGS ServiamScores PolskaPiano Don9of11
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,086
    That's how groomers normally work....
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,482
    Does anyone know the status of Haas himself? Has he been arrested/charged?
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,078
    No charges, therefore no arrest. I don't believe the judicial system will be availed by any victims; the reports at Into Account detail predatory, manipulative and abusive behavior that wasn't necessarily criminal or would not be easy to be proved criminal beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.

    Lifelong shunning of him and his music will probably be the extent of the consequences for his behavior.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    To the original question of who was responsible, all the people who were making money off of him and those who had an agenda to advance. If all the "victims" were adults that would limit any legal issues.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,460
    Today https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2021/04/university-to-change-some-procedures-after-report-on-composer-david-haas/
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    David Haas is the only person responsible for David Haas being a predator for ANY number of years. It’s his to bear.
    Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    I agree, but he certainly had a number of enablers.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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