“Praenotanda”
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Would anyone know of a source whereby the Latin frontmatter of so many of the Solesmes and Vatican chant books might be translated? My church Latin is adequate for the mass and office, but not for these pages! I’m especially curious about the Antiphonale Monasticum 1934 and the most recent Solesmes products. If Rome went to the trouble of translating the GIRM, I bet somewhere someone has done the same for chant books.

    Google Translate mangles Latin.

    If there are any competent Latinists reading this, what is your fee per page, please?
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    Can you provide us with a list of the praenotanda you wish translated? I have several here.
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Thank you!

    First, the beginning of the AM 1934, p vi to p xix, then 1208-1243 or any parts therein (De Cantu Psalmorum).

    Graduale Romanum, p 7-12

    AM 2005, Vol I, vii-xxxiv

    Kevin
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The Praenotanda from the 1974 Graduale, originally from the Ordo Cantus Missae, are available here: https://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/ordo-cantus-missae.pdf
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Thank you.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Is what you seek from the 1934 AM possibly the same as pp. xxxij ff. in the Liber usualis? I do have a copy of the former, but I don't have it handy at the moment. I don't have the 2005 AM, but I'm wondering if the introductory material is at least mostly the same as in the first edition of the Liber hymnarius? Part of that has been translated in this article.
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    I’m not sure if the frontmatter of the AM 1934 is the same as anything in the front of the LU; my Latin isn’t that advanced. I’m just asking out loud if anyone has or knows of translations in toto or each volume I mentioned. If there aren’t, I’ll be surprised, but might engage a competent Latin reader to translate some for me.

    While everyone knows Latin is still the language of the church, it seems kind of curious to me that such material isn’t translated into English and Spanish for such a wide audience as those languages represent.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Alas, while Latin may still be the language of the church that does not mean that everybody can read and understand it. Still less does it mean that everybody can write it, even the authors and editors of liturgical books. So you get competing translations, as detailed here, three versions of one sentence.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Oy vey.
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Now I get why those who created works like the Mundelein Psalter wrote such simple psalm tones formulas...simple to explain!
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    And BTW I went back into the LU and found a lot of good instruction and examples of psalm tones work. So much material everywhere!
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    I now have the 1995 reprint of the 1934 AM in front of me and can confirm that the section "De rhythmo ejusque elementis" appears to be the same as in the Prooemium of the 1962 Liber except that the AM fittingly includes examples from its own contents rather than the Kyriale. That preface by Dom Gajard appears in the Solesmes publications from 1934. Unfortunately, the "Rules for Interpretation" in English editions of the Liber are based on the previous preface by Dom Mocquereau and were never updated to reflect the revision of the Latin version by Gajard. As far as the 2005 AM is concerned, I don't have access to that volume. The 1983 Liber Hymnarius is the companion to the Antiphonale Romanum, not the Monasticum.
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Thanks for checking. Eventually I might get motivated enough to delve deeper but for now I will stay in my appropriately blissful half-ignorance and do my best!
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Now I’m trying to figure out just what all the pieces of the Processionale Monasticum are used for. Especially interesting are the entries for the Sundays of September with subtitles “Pro Historia Job”, “Pro Historia Tobiae”, etc. Where might these chants be used? I’ve already looked at a couple entries here in the Gregorian Chant section about the Pr. M and don’t really have an answer.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    I see some bits of the book of Job were read at Matins on the 1st and 2nd Sundays of September see here. These are alternative Responsaries, collected at Solesmes, but not at that time the main ones used. The Processionale seems to say they are available as options, exactly how I do not know.
    Incidentally, don't let anyone kid you that before Vatican II the liturgy did not have options.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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