• davido
    Posts: 308
    Ok, who has a favorite sample set for GrandOrgue that is perfect for mass in the gym with a single manual (one midi keyboard) and no pedal?
    Thanks in advance!
  • I do like the Burea Church sampleset. I'm sure it can be used as grand or as small as you wish. I used it as my "practicing sampleset" a few years ago when I was at the cottage.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    How do I use this setup? Do you play from computer?
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    Francis: Like its commercial cousin Hauptwerk, the open source GrandOrgue is software installed on a computer. The MIDI keyboard connects to the computer through a MIDI to USB interface cable, preferably a fast one such as Roland's UM-1. You select the stops on the computer with the computer's mouse, or touch pad, but the best is a touch screen with the computer. You will need a HiFi amplifier connected to the audio output socket of the computer as well as good speakers to play the sounds with good volume for a large room. At home for practice, you could always just use headphones plugged into the computer.

    For playing the keyboard as an organ, you need a sample set of an organ. This is a recording that has been made for each and every pipe on the real organ, as well as its attack and decay samples. In other words, you would be playing on virtually the real organ as far as the sound is concerned. Sample sets are either dry or wet. A dry set is where the mic has been placed as close as possible to the pipe so that there is no reverb from the large church or hall where the organ is placed. This is good for those MIDI setups in large auditoriums or churches which will give the sound their own unique reverb. A wet sample is a recording made with the mic in the large church or hall, thereby including the reverb of that large space. These are good for playing your keyboard in small spaces such as your living room or through headphones. However, reverb can always be added electronically on the computer if you want to play a dry set in your living room or through headphones.

    As for sample sets, the neat thing about these virtual organs is that you can download free organ sample sets of organs from around the world and install them all on GrandOrgue and then select the one you want for the particular style of music you will be playing. That allows you to play an organ type for which the composition was originally written for. Source Forge has a large listing of such downloads:

    https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/samplesets/Sample Sets/
  • I use Hauptwerk, but would suggest you source your sample sets here:

    https://piotrgrabowski.pl/

    I use Piotr’s sample sets exclusively, and have never been disappointed.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • I use Hauptwerk, but would suggest you source your sample sets here:

    https://piotrgrabowski.pl/

    I use Piotr’s sample sets exclusively, and have never been disappointed.


    Piotr's sets are indeed wonderful. Especially the Freisach. As far as free sets are concerned, you can't do much better—although there are people who cobble together a lot of the Sonus Paradisi sets into larger conglomerate sets via 3rd party ODFs. Regardless, if you want to go small, check out the freebies on the SP website too.
  • I should also mention that I think that some of Piotr's sets are available for G.O. I know some other free producers release their sets that way too. I've never paid too much attention since I have HW advanced, but still, double check.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,036
    @Marc Cerisier thanks for this. Always wondered if there was a better source than what I'd found!
  • Piotr's Friesach and St. John Cantius sample sets are his best, in my opinion.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    i downloaded the app and a sampleset, but it crashes everytime i try to configure the midi...
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    Francis: What is your OS, how much RAM do you have, and what MIDI interface are you using?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    @Ted

    MacOS Sierra 10.12.6
    8 gig RAM
    No interface... going directly from Keyrig 49 to usb port

    Thanks for asking and maybe helping to figure this out
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    Francis:
    I assume the Keyrig 49 is otherwise working fine on your Mac. You certainly have enough RAM for a smooth running. I would make sure all other apps are not running. But Sierra 10.12.16 is somewhat old and may be the source of the problem. The MAC market is small and rigorous testing by open source programmers is not usually possible on older OSs. If possible you should update your OS to something much more recent.

    In any case, you may want to post your problem at the GrandOrgue discussion group for more help from MAC OS users:

    https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/






  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    @ted

    I was hoping you wouldn't tell me that... I do not play the upgrade game on my devices... Hardware is MADE to run with the software they come with. Once you begin upgrading, you begin to degrade your OS, risk making older software obsolete, and running slower and slower.

    I have another newer Mac... I will try that one and see if it works and let you know. Thanks for helping.
  • "Hardware is MADE to run with the software they come with. Once you begin upgrading, you begin to degrade your OS, risk making older software obsolete, and running slower and slower."

    I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    you may be sorry, but I was still running my 2004 mac tower with high end adobe suite until this summer... because it worked when i purchased it all (hw and sw) and i never upgraded anything... that was 16 years running just as fast from day one... don't play the upgrade game
  • I'm happy that your Mac worked for you that long, but upgrading a component doesn't make your computer run slower, and software isn't "designed" to run on certain hardware in the consumer desktop space.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,349
    You're both right in aspects.

    Newer software releases (of apps or the OS) are often not supported on older machines and sometimes include tests to prevent installing them on older equipment. Some users work around such restrictions by applying unofficial mods to the software.

    Conversely, some new hardware requires support from the OS and isn't compatible with older versions that don't support the device at all, or that have bugs in their support for the device.

    Francis may need to get some advice from other Hauptwerk users about the range of hardware and OS versions compatible with the app he wants to run.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    Yea, I was thinking I might try to find an older version of GO for my laptop which I believe is a 2015, however I do have another laptop which is 2017 running the latest OS, so I will try that first.

    I'm happy that your Mac worked for you that long, but upgrading a component doesn't make your computer run slower, and software isn't "designed" to run on certain hardware in the consumer desktop space.
    Granted, I am only speaking to the Mac users, but my experience tells me otherwise. (...having owned and managed macs all the way back to 1990 (my first was a Mac SE)).
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 2,093
    The Jobs/Apple philosophy is to give the consumer something that works, and not let one tinker with it. The PC was an IBM attempted takeover of the enthusiast self build market [to over simplify].There is an analogy with SCR's tight control, and the Consilium kit of interchangeable parts approach.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    So, I can play the organ from the panel on the screen, but I cannot play the organ from the MIDI keyboard which means the software is working fine, but the interface direct from Keyrig 49 is not connecting (keyboard to usb on mac)
  • davido
    Posts: 308
    I got mine working, but the speakers in our gym don’t like anything below middle C :(
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    Whether it is Apple or PC, the manufacturers want to sell their computer equipment. Waiting for people's old computers to break down is not going to make them sell much. But improvements will. The perennial improvement has been speed. As software grows more complex to gain feature rich functionality, the hardware has to become faster to run that software adequately. One of the biggest improvements has been SSD hard drives which will make even 2004 computers run 4x faster for disk intensive software. The problem is that even with SSDs you reach a limit on the old supporting hardware in order to offer the maximum interface speed for them. Ditto with CPU speed.

    I have been running both Hauptwerk and GrandOrgue for quite some time for my Rogers 525. Both are pretty good, and I have a touch screen suspended on an arm to quickly change the registration. (Also have a 18" amplified super subwoofer for those 32 foot stops.) I prefer Hauptwerk because it can fill full screen and more easily accept plugins. There are plenty of samples for both. But one important thing is computer speed especially when you start installing VSTs and other plugins to modify the sound (eg reverb). Latency becomes a problem otherwise (the delay between pressing the key and hearing the sound). Earlier this year I finally got a gamer AMD motherboard with plenty of RAM and a NvMe SSD hard drive, and the latency is now more than acceptable.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    Francis:
    Does your Mac recognise the M-Audio keyboard? To find out, try this:

    https://m-audio.com/kb/article/1603

    If it does, I would suspect GrandOrgue as the problem.

    For everyone, this should also teach a lesson. Dealing with USB only musical keyboards can be a problem. As USB specifications are upgraded over the years, and despite what manufacturers say, they are not entirely backward compatible on the hardware level. For instance, I tried connecting a Hammer 88 with USB 2.0 (still in production) using its direct USB connection to some new ASUS motherboards which support USB 3.1. It would not connect. 99% of USB 2.0 devices will connect with USB 3.1, but this is in that 1% which will not. Moreover, you are reliant on USB drivers from the keyboard manufacturers for supporting future OS upgrades, which has been problematic as we all know. Fortunately the Hammer 88 also has the standard MIDI interface, which easily and successfully connected through a standard interface adapter to the ASUS motherboard via USB. In other words, stick to the standard DIN MIDI interface when purchasing musical equipment, an interface that is fairly universal and should remain so for a long time.
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    I should also have mentioned latency for WIDI (wireless MIDI through Bluetooth) on slower computers. Apple developed the WIDI protocol, but it is now supported in Windows 10 and Android. Note however that Apple artificially sets a rule for a minimum latency interval of 11.25ms on IOS, and 7.5ms on MacOS to prevent Bluetooth from having priority over its other interfaces. This may not seem like much, but in systems already slow every little bit counts. Other OS systems do not have this rule in which case the wireless latency is determined only by the Bluetooth electronics. Bluetooth 5 has very low latency by design, averaging about 3ms in practice, but use quality devices.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,930
    Ted

    The keyboard shows up as the MIDI input in GO, so it sees it... however the keyboard is very old... maybe 15-20 years.
  • Ted
    Posts: 163
    If it is recognised in Go then GrandOrgue is likely the problem. However, there are steps on the Mac that should be tried first before giving up:

    https://noterepeat.com/articles/pc-troubleshooting/97-troubleshooting-midi-devices-on-mac

    Do any MIDI devices appear in the GrandOrgue settings page, input or output?