Setting English Hymns Using GABC
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Has anyone tried setting English hymns using the GABC tool? I imagine it would work, but curious if anyone here has attempted it.
  • It's possible for some hymns, but there are difficulties with others. For example, the only way to notate a dotted rhythm is with a tristropha followed by a punctum, but that also implies a repercussion on the third note of the tristropha, and possibly the second note as well, depending on which school of chant interpretation one follows. Rests are also problematic, because the normal way to notate them is with a full bar line, which also requires a ritardando, or a half bar line, which requires diminution of the preceding note. Otherwise you're getting into nonstandard styles of Gregorian notation. Try copying and pasting this here:
    centering-scheme: english;
    %%
    (f3)Ho(e.)ly(e) God,(ed) we(e) praise(fg) Thy(f) Name;(eee) (;) Lord(g.) of(g) all,(gf) we(e) bow(ih) be(g)fore(g) Thee.(f.) (;)
    You can keep going with it, but suppose you want to notate the eighth notes that are customarily sung in the last phrase in many places. You could use a pes initio debilis, but that suggests a note of more diminished (half) value followed by one of diminished (short) value, not two of half value. There's really no way to notate that, and you can't double all the note values because of the repercussions that would imply.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • The quicker tempo implied by Gregorian notation is also an issue. It would be a bit like printing GROSSER GOTT in 6/8 instead of 3/4.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @madorganist

    Thanks for info. I just set this one, which kinda works, but I see that once you get into something that is not a plainchant style hymn, you got problems.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    if you start doing eighths as punctums you get this

    (f3)Ho(eeee)ly(ee) God,(eedd) we(ee) praise(ffgg) Thy(ff) Name;(eee) (;) Lord(gggg) of(gg) all,(ggff) we(ee) bow(iihh) be(gg)fore(gg) Thee.(fff) (;) in(ffff)fi-(gi)nite(hhgg)
  • You could dot everything instead
    centering-scheme: english;
    %%
    (f3)Ho(e.e.)ly(e.) God,(e.d.) we(e.) praise(f.g.) Thy(f.) Name;(e.e.e.) (;) Lord(g.g.) of(g.) all,(g.f.) we(e.) bow(i.h.) be(g.)fore(g.) Thee.(f.f.) (;)
    but then you run into the repercussion problem: Ho-holy God, we praise Thy Na-ha-hame; Lo-hord of all, we bow before Thee-hee.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    lol... yes... it seems a lost cause... funny. new style... rap chant.
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    I think I’d only attempt this with either proper chant tunes (adoro te devote but with English text) or something composed in a deliberate chant style. I have an example on my work computer I’ll try to share tomorrow.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Let All Mortal Flesh actually works pretty well in the Gregorian notation. Though, I have always thought of it more in a chant style anyways. It's like chant where everything is in groups of two instead of both twos and threes.

    This idea actually reminds me of a setting of Adoro te Devote that I sang in high school choir. It was entirely in 2/4 time except for "tibi se cor meum" which was in a 5/8 bar and then back to 2/4. The melody wasn't altered at all and was true to the original chant melody. It's kind of the opposite really. We are trying to take metrical music and write it in square notes and still sound like the original. The arranger took square notes and made it metrical.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    It seems to me you're making this harder than it is: the inventors of modal and mensural notation had no problem ditching the baggage of a different style of singing and hijacking extant glyphs:
    (f2) 3In(gv)fi(h)(,)nite(ixi/h) thy(g) (,) vast(h.J) do(IK)(,)main;(jv.) (,) Ev(kv)er(k)(,)last(ixj/i)ing(h)(,) is(ixi/h) thy(g)(,) reign.(fv.) (::)
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    Here's a chant I composed that is a hybrid between chant and a hymn using a hymn text. Just did this a few weeks ago for a funeral.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ServiamScores,

    That is a beautiful melody. Have you written an organ accompaniment for it?
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    I think I’d only attempt this with either proper chant tunes (adoro te devote but with English text) or something composed in a deliberate chant style.
    Here is my own chant setting of Kathy Pluth's "The morning star is on the rise" (translation of Nocti succedit Lucifer), office hymn for the Feast of St Anne.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    Here's an organ accompaniment to my hymn above.
  • Thanks, ServiamScores!!!
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores,

    I took a little time to look through the scores and have a question. Why in the organ accompaniment is there an F natural on the second note? If do is an A, then wouldn't la be F#?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    well, it would appear that I need to shift the chant around to make the mode correct. It should sound the way I notated it in modern notation. whoops...
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,723
    this fixes it I think
  • Mistakes happen. Thanks for fixing it.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Years ago, I wrote a Mass setting based on Shaker chant. I originally used Gregorian notation for it, because I Thought it was the best way to represent the free-but-not-quite-free rhythm I was going for. Several people pointed out that it felt like a weird, out of place, affectation.

    On the other hand, I did music for an Eastern Rite Anglican (I don't want to talk about how weird that is, please) monastic community, and I set all the Byzantine stuff using gregorian notation and it worked really well for that.

    There are two inter-related problems with using a non-standard notation system:
    - Can it communicate what it needs to?
    - Will the people using it accept it?

    As anyone who has set Gregorian chant to five line round notes knows, the second is actually more important than the first.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Richard:

    I googled the term 'extant glyphs' and there is nothing on that term... please elucidate.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Maybe you'd have done better with individual words and a dictionary, but what I meant was that, in my example as well as historically, virga can be used for longa, punctum for breve &c.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Yes, I figured that’s what you were talking about but I was looking for documented information about this being specifically used in Gregorian chant

    Of course then you’re opening a whole Nother can of worms when you’re trying to teach Gregorian chant to children or newbies per se and you don’t want to confuse them about rhythms