Rubrics that require organ
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    what if you don’t have an organist for the Glorias of Holy Thursday or Easter Vigil Mass? Must there be a low Mass?
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    I've always thought that the Holy Week Masses must be sung, but I see that Fortescue (1962) notes that the Holy Thursday Mass could be low.

    However, the organ, while highly desirable for the Gloria of both HT and HS, is not an essential element. The ringing of the bells during the recited Gloria can still take place. Alternatively, a non-organist with minimal proficiency could play both the intonation and a brief accompaniment to a chant Gloria during the recitation.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Can you sing them without accompaniment?
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    In a recent post on this forum was a reference to rubrics which mention organ playing during those two Glorias but nothing stated about singing them unaccompanied... So I don’t know.
    Would be preferable, to me at least, to have them sung at all, but is it permitted?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I know of nothing in the U.S. that says the Gloria has to be accompanied.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    Even during Holy Week, we always sing the the Gloria unaccompanied. I assumed you simply meant the practice where the singing is delayed until the celebrant has completed reciting, while the organ blares triumphantly and the bells ring. The simple chant accompaniment that I referred to above is what I meant in that case... but our singing is always unaccompanied, regardless of whether we are singing a chant Mass or a polyphonic one.

    The playing of the organ at both occasions is to mark the beginning and end of the time where the organ must be silent, not a prescriptive requirement that you must have organ at these times.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Do we have some confusion here between those thinking EF, and others thinking OF?
    The 1920 Missal does not mention the organ within the main text †, it does specify bells. :
    ¶ Dicitur Glória in excélsis, quo intonato
    pulsantur campanæ; quæ, expleto Hymno,
    silent usque ad Sabbatum sanctum, ut
    suo loco notatur.
    So the specification here in 1962 is an innovation.
    ... incipit solemniter Gloria in excelsis,
    et pulsantur campanae et organum, quae,
    expleto hymno, silent usque ad Vigiliam
    paschalem.
    † there may be something I do not know in the rubricae generalis.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Predmore references S.C.R. 3515 & 4265 regarding the organ at the Gloria of Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday. Does anyone have these texts?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    There is an online INDEX. I find it difficult to get text from it,
    Organum post intonationem Gloria in excelsis Feria V in Coena Domini potest pulsari aliquantulum, vel etiam protrahi usque ad eiusdem finem, iuxta consuetudinem. 3515 ad 4.

    DubiumIV.InMissaFeriaeVinCoenaDominipostintonationemGloriainEoccelsispulsanturOrganaetCampanae,quaedein-cepssilentiuxtaRubricasusqueadSabba-tumSanctum.QuaeriturveroansonitusOrganiprotrailipossitusqueinfinemHymniAngelici,adeoutChorushuncHymnumprosequatur,Organipulsationecantumin-tercalante,usqueadfinem,moresolito;velHymnusAngelicustotussitdecantandusaChoro,quininlermisceatursonitusOr-gani,quodpulsaritantummododebeatali-quantulumpostintonationemHymniprae-dicti,acposteasilereomninousqueadSab-batumSanctum?

    dIV.«Serveturconsuetudo».

    I leave 4265 as an exercise for the reader
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • gsharpe34
    Posts: 47
    The reference to the organ for the glorias of Holy Thurs and Holy Sat are meant in the liturgical books to establish inclusive limits for the period during the triduum when the organ may NOT be played. They do not imply that the organ MUST be played outside of those limits, insofar as playing of the organ is always discretionary (though the 1948 CE indicates when the organ SHOULD be played during a sung Mass). The limits are "inclusive" because they allow accompaniment (but do not require it) during said glorias. The issue of accompaniment is conspicuous because the triduum is the one case where the organ may not be used even to sustain the chant, where at other times when the organ is to be silent (lent/advent exclusive of the rose Sundays) the organ may still accompany voices but may not be heard when there is no signing. During the triduum between the glorias, exclusive, the organ may not even be heard with voices.
  • gsharpe34
    Posts: 47
    If anyone wishes I can scan my pages of the SRC decrees mentioned above and post.
    Thanked by 2madorganist francis
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    gsharpe34--that comports with my reading and recollection. In addition, the bells may/should be rung during both those Glorias.
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