English 4-Week Psalter: Formatting Poll
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I have set the antiphons of the full 4-week Psalter to chants based on their corresponding Latin melodies. In preparing a template for the document (with psalm verses included), I have a few questions on what would be most useful / desired for those who might use them. Please take a moment to fill out this short poll:

    https://forms.gle/eBkunubXJTzfdvUm7

    A few things to note:

    -The assigned antiphons differ between the Editio Typica and the Ordo Cantus Officii (I’m using ‘83 for reasons explained later). I wonder if the new translation will be more similar to the new OCO. As it is though, this is the reason for question of the Latin incipit. I still followed the same mode and general melodic ideas in cases where the texts don’t align, so it does provide reference for the original melody, but not always the same text.

    -The question regarding psalm verses is what I am most concerned with. Hopefully without skewing poll results, I note that my preference is to leave these as plain text since there are many collections of tones & methods of pointing - it seems best to leave this to individual preference rather than format the text according to a single approach. That is, unless there is a notable response favoring a particular psalm tone method.
    Thanked by 5irishtenor roy2 JonathanLC FKulash happyalone
  • JonathanLCJonathanLC
    Posts: 75
    I have a question, is there an option for the other form of the Gloria Patri - i.e. "unto the ages of ages" instead of "world without end"? Pedantic I know, but generally something I have been thinking about.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    I prefer including the scriptural passage but not the title.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jonathan,

    The Latin forms of the Doxology are many and varied. The English, to the best of my knowledge, has only one form except among those who can't wait for Vatican III to revolutionize the Church.

    Thanked by 1drforjc
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,165
    The LOTH uses
    'Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:
    as it was in the beginning is now, and will be forever. Amen.'

    Which is different from what we use elsewhere
    'Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:
    as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.'
  • FKulash
    Posts: 82
    Are the antiphons you set available somewhere?
    Thanked by 1happyalone
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Not yet, but soon.
    Thanked by 1happyalone
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    Regarding the gloria it might be a good idear to ask ICEL if their new translation will revise it.
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    I wish all Grail psalter editions that used any pointing would have both the asterisks to mark the mid-verse for Gregorian tones and the accent marks to facilitate Gelineau (using all the accent marks) or Meinrad-Conception-Bevenot-type tones that aim for the last accented syllable in each line. The UK Divine Office books provide both pointings, and American editions don't. Would be quite useful if they did.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    @Kathy If there’s not been any clear answer given to established Catholic news outlets (I’ve seen this question mentioned in articles re: LOTH) then I doubt I’d had any success getting an answer from them as an individual. I know clergy who are loyal to the LOTH with exception to this text, and I suspect the opposite would be true if ICEL were to revise the currently printed translation.

    I intend to redo this whole project when the revised LOTH is promulgated, and at that point I would use whatever translation is official. For now, recognizing that this is temporary and may be in use for as little as 2 years (or another 10, who knows?), I’m just trying to gauge where preferences are. If I type one translation and someone prefers the other, they’re just gonna use their preference anyway. Might as well present the most popular option, especially for a temporary resource.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    @ScottKChicago could you post a sample photo? Sounds similar to what I have in mind.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Here are two pdfs, one from the English&& office books with asterisks and Gelineau pointing, the other a 1969 GS in English by Ainslie showing pointing for both Gelineau and Bevenot/Murray.
    Untitled7a.pdf
    86K
    Untitled8a.pdf
    498K
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Is there an online source of the 1963 Grail Psalms with the accents? I have them laid out for Lauds and Vespers in plain text with asterisks but no accents. I spent awhile adding some manually today and it’s quite tedious work.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    There would be copyright issues. Looking around I see sites which say they are currently suspended while they get clearance. https://divineoffice.org/welcome/
    Universalis seems to have the issues under control, you could check with them (contact at the bottom of that page)
    Limited translations: For copyright reasons the web pages can’t use the Grail psalms in the Liturgy of the Hours, or (if you are in the USA) the NAB bible for the readings and psalms at Mass. The apps and programs don’t have this limitation.
  • happyalone
    Posts: 2
    Ryand, when you say "the entire 4-week psalter", do you mean "entire"? All the Hours?
  • happyalone
    Posts: 2
    PS, yes, the paid version of Universalis does have the accent marks, and all the official translations.
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