• ghmus7
    Posts: 1,465
    I had a discussion with a family regarding the music for their mothers' funeral. At one point, someone said " And we want to tell you, that we only want TRADITIONAL Catholic music! - like City of God, One Bread One Body, none of that weird stuff!"
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Yes, I've heard the same. "Traditional Catholic Music."

    TCM
  • To me, this is a real question:

    Is the tradition (a) the lived experience of liturgy as it is actually carried out, or (b) a certain body of work, no matter how far removed from anything resembling common experience, defined as such by ecclesiastical law?

    I tend not (personally) to balk at the use of "tradition" as meaning "what has been handed down to me." I do, however, think that there are good and bad traditions. There are also traditions that, in many places, while they certainly remain part of a common patrimony / heritage, have become lost.

    For fun: the "Kyrie" from the St. Cecilia Mass of Fr. J.E. Turner, O.S.B. Is it traditional? These Korean Catholics have kept it up for well over 100 years now, along with many of the Ordinaries of Korman et al. that would commonly have been heard in American Catholic Churches of the first half of the past century. If it hasn't made the jump from novelty to custom / tradition already, when will it? Can it ever?

    I've had some numinous experiences with these old Ordinaries. Some merry men (and women) and I used to journey every year to a country church about an hour away from home, in the days after Christmas (usually St. Stephen's or Holy Innocents) where the pastor employed our services for a noontime High Mass with Carols. The organ was installed in 1912, the church was about large enough for 200, with beautiful painting and a lovely high altar. Middle of nowhere. No traffic noise, nothing of the kind. Usually the lights were off, too. You could easily forget what year, decade, or even century it was out there. We usually sang an Ordinary from their [century-] old choir files. Something of this kind, very Romantic and spirited.

    It was special to experience. Not just to sing music from this broad Catholic tradition, but the specific music that was used for divine worship in that very space, a century ago, on the instrument on which it had been first heard. I've never had a stronger sense of the communion of saints than those moments.

    And yet, unlike them (in all likelihood), we sang the full Proper in Gregorian Chant. And in this, there was a tremendous sense too of the beauty of these "recovered" traditions.

    Or should we react to these things in the same way that the Taliban reacted to the Bamiyan Buddhas -- an idol is an idol, no matter how old, and subject to legitimate smashing? ;-)
  • A tradition (or even Tradition) is, I think, a thing or a practice which is in force right now. It is, by definition an historical practice which remains in force. If it has fallen by the wayside it isn't a 'tradition', it is a past tradition. Tropes, for instance, are a past tradition that was in force for hundreds of years, and has not been in force for hundreds of years. That is not at all to say that traditions which have been lost to time cannot be revived. Many of them should be, and many should never have been allowed to be disused. Latin and chant are cases in point. They (very unfortunately) simply don't exist experientially in the lives of 98% of modern Catholics. Their suppression has to a large extent been shamefully deliberate on the part of most hierarchs. clerics, and lay leaders. They can be said to be 'traditional' only by a relatively small percentage of us, who work diligently to defend and restore them. May God bless our efforts. Too, a genuine tradition will have been in force for generations, for many, many decades, if not centuries. Something that is peculiar to one generation and is barely fifty years old can hardly be termed a 'tradition'.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    My wife devised a Good Friday evening para-liturgy for our parish, which caught on immediately. She made minor changes to it most years, but one change in the fifth, or was it the fourth? year brought forth complaints, from people who knew that she organised it but did not know she devised it, "Oh, but we've always done ..."
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    Tradition is relative to the parish community. In my parish it's traditional for the choir not to sing on Christmas Day and not to sing on the Solemnity of Mary - New Year's day. Funeral traditions also exist, for example the entrance hymn for a funeral in my parish is Amazing Grace, the recessional is How Great Thou Art. On Eagles Wings is also popular.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Yeah, I would like to put a bullet through that damned eagle and end all our misery from having to perform it. It is popular for funerals to a degree I do not pretend to understand. How Great Thou Art and Amazing Grace are also traditional in the parish. Parts of my choir will show up and sing tomorrow but they take Christmas Day off, too. Their reasoning is they came at midnight and shouldn't have to come back. Since they have been doing that for better than 50 years, I will not even try to change it.
    Thanked by 1Don9of11
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    I think there is a distinction to be made between what is routine, and may also be popular and what is Tradition. Of course it is very easy to list traditions that are popular, Christmas, St Nicholas (Sinta Claus),...
    Many of the 'hymns' songs people sing are routine, we sing them as part of our routine, we may find comfort in them, but they are similar to comfort (fast) food.
    I would suggest that to be a tradition we need a sense of the timeless, so many of the things people describe as tradition are timeless they are not stuck in a particular era or cult of popularity...
    Chant is traditional and part of it is due to it's timelessness. It is easy to suggest that most Catholics do not hear chant but is this true? I teach (many non-Catholics) and I find my students are familiar with chant, they listen to the melodies as a backing to computer games, the melodies appear as backing to many forms (even outwardly hideous) of popular music.
    When we had music stores, they always had a section on chant, and Youtube has plenty of chant uploaded and people appear to be listening... It is a tragedy, that we have a section of the population that are drawn to beauty of chant, but if they step into their local church will not find it...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    What many call tradition is actually a travesty
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    At today's mass the cantor did a lovely job singing Schuberts Ave Maria. It's traditional in my parish but only because no other Ave Maria is ever sung, the congregation has no choice but to say it's traditional.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    tradition is actually a travesty

    or, in Austrian, Schlamperei.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    So, new traditions cannot ever be made? We talk about the Traditional Latin Mass, but at one time that was a new thing. We talk about traditions as if they've always been that way, but they had to start sometime. At my place of work, we take off 2 days for Thanksgiving. Is that a tradition? What about family traditions? I think some of us have too narrow a definition of tradition. Our parish says the Ordinaries in Latin during Advent and Lent. Is that a tradition? Isn't tradition, in part, something that has been done for quite a while and that you expect?
  • BHCordova,

    "New Tradition" is an oxymoron, but new practices can, indeed, come into existence. Those practices grow organically from tradition. The challenge in our day is that something non-Catholic was grafted onto the tree, and now "organic" growth must come again from the original tree instead of the grafted one.