Organ accompaniments for chant
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 860
    Hello, all:

    Not meaning to spark a flame--because I am sure everyone here has strong opinions---but I had a serious question about organ accompaniments for chant.

    I am very skilled at chant, but in other musical matters still something of a tyro. I usually memorize any polyphony or 4-part hymns. I really like rehearsal, and have gotten good notices for the job I do on music that I don't normally study (in one case, by the composer). I have sung at the National Shrine with brass ensemble blaring behind me, unable to hear myself or any other singers, and been told I did a good job. But it was all memorized--muscle memory.

    I have sung chant a lot, studied it seriously (even spending three weeks in total at St Meinrad. Fr. Columba, RIP). I usually never sing with accompaniment, and when I have, the organ accompaniment seemed to really just be there to make sure we were on pitch.

    Recently, I got stuck in one of those situations. Finding the pitch fell to me, and I had three random pitches swirling around me. I did not do well. The organist and I both agree that one of us should have had the presence of mind to stop (when the priest gave the wrong intonation of the Gloria) and dropped any extras just to get that started properly. I used to manage special events, and that is a separate skill--learning to recognize when to stop and restart.

    Afterwards, I looked at the accompaniment, which I had only had time to check for key, etc. (Did I mention inadequate rehearsal time? I see I cut that. We did not have enough rehearsal time.) It seemed to me that the answer, for me, was that the tonic for some reason was up top, and the pitches for the chant itself were in the left hand. I guess the idea is to have the pitches where the singers actually are, but I think that is what confused me. Chant is all UP--Fr. Columba's "Roman Arches." If I practice with the tonic, I play it below the melody.

    Now, please note, if you are the kind of person who thinks an amateur musician should have professional skills, I am not your guy. I can sightread pages of chant cold, and have done so. Moving beyond my current skills and learning to sing harmony on sight and to be comfortable with accompaniment without all those (much appreciated) rehearsals are two of those things I am going to work on this year. In fact, I am already getting there. This was a pop quiz, and I did not do well.

    This is JUST a question about that one thing: shouldn't organ accompaniments have the tonic below the melody?

    Many thanks.

    Kenneth
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    Chant has been accompanied on the organ many ways. Most commonly, notated chant accompaniments place the chant in the soprano line of a 3-4 part accompaniment, akin to hymn arrangements found in a hymnal.
    There are also beautiful accompaniments the move the chant to a lower voice, or accompaniments that do not double the chant melody at all!
    However, the most appropriate style of chant accompaniment is one that best supports the singing! If the accompaniment is interfering with the singers, then it is a problem.
    Thanked by 1amindthatsuits
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 860
    I should hasten to add that the organist was very supportive by intention. ALL of the mistakes, except for the intonation, could have been solved with, yes, adequate rehearsal time. Another lesson from managing special events: walking through the order and making sure you know what is happening at every juncture is time well spent. After rehearsing the Great Easter Vigil at a Cathedral, they changed it at the last minute. I was vimp, the priest I was supposed to follow waved me ahead, and I nearly tripped, almost dropping the platinum crozier the Holy Father had just recently given the Cardinal. Did I mention that I really like rehearsals?

    Kenneth
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    It isn't altogether clear to me why, if you are as proficient as you say you are, you need or have accompaniment. Many of us recognise that when chant is 'accompanied' it ceases to be chant. That said, there are situations in which accompaniment may unfortunately be necessary. (Those situations, though, are undoubtedly fewer than are imagined to be.)
    Thanked by 2Incardination tomjaw
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 860
    the answer to those questions is fairly Clear in what I initially wrote, but I am not going over the agonizing details. I am skilled at exactly one thing. That should have been the skill that was expected of me, but was not. I would have vastly preferred just to sing the Nuptial Mass and the Cum Iubilo, alone. Young organizers of such things take note: first find out what your musicians can do, THEN program the music.

    And schedule more rehearsals!!

    Kenneth
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    What do you mean by “tonic below the melody?”

    The Nova Organi Harmonia harmonizes chant with the melody on top. I do the same when writing them out and most published material I’ve seen does likewise (Bragers, Lumen Christi, et al).

    One can always move things around (put the melody in a lower voice or omit it entirely, using just the harmonies underneath), but this seems to be the standard way of presenting chant accompaniments.

    In scholas I have sung with or accompanied, the melody is sometimes played by the organ and sometimes not. If it is being played, men are of course down the octave from the written treble clef melody, as would be the case when singing melodies from any hymnal.

    Sounds like the book you had was set otherwise, with the chant melody in the left hand? That’s just something that would need to recognized beforehand if so, identifying where the melody from the square notes is set in the organ voices.
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 860
    The only organist that I have really sung chant with was accompanying the congregation and seemed to have chords that would make everyone stay on pitch. That's why I found this so disconcerting.

    Thanks. I will look those up--something to practice with, up the skills.
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    If you cannot get the pitch on your own, and you are not confident getting from the organ for whatever reason (as in this case, a type of accompaniment unfamiliar to you), then use a pitch pipe (or something equivalent -- there are plenty of apps that run on a phone for example). Give yourself the pitch a short while prior to the beginning of the chant. Doing so should help you understand how *your* pitch is related to whatever the organ is playing, and should help you understand better what is happening musically, thus enabling you to stay on point.

    If a priest intones incorrectly and you are a capella: pick a note and go with it (or if you already gave yourself the pitch as above, then go with that pitch).

    If a priest intones incorrectly and you are accompanied by an organ: the organist should give a pitch or pitches to be sure everybody is on the same page. Exactly what the organist needs to do depends on the level of comfort of the singers. In some cases, perhaps the incipit should simply be played. In other cases, perhaps just the first note is needed. Or just 'do'. An experienced church organist should have these techniques at the fingertips, literally, and should have a good sense of what is needed in various circumstances.

    Consider it a cheap lesson. Next time you will know to ask the organist and arrange a strategy in advance.
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    For what they're worth, two examples of accompanied congregational chant that I think are excellent for how they keep everyone on pitch and moving together:
    Nicene Creed
    Psalm 111
    St Thomas' Anglican Church, Toronto
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen Joseph Michael
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    For all those who say that congregations can't sing Gregorian chant, Scott's examples are a gladsome rebuttal. Such singing is widespread in the Anglican church.
    Thanked by 1ScottKChicago
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,165
    It's not that congregations can't sing Gregorian chant, it's that congregations won't sing.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Congregations will sing Gregorian chant if they are Anglican or Ordinariate. Catholics will, too, for anyone who is competent and patient to teach them. Those who say they can't sing it haven't the competence to teach them, and probably don't like it very much. They foist, project, their own shortcomings onto everyone else they can. Thus they aren't shown up to feel as incompetent as they actually are.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins CHGiffen
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    I tend to agree with Cordova. But I think the “won’t” or lack of interest goes beyond singing. There is often a general apathy to saying the responses! Catholics don’t want to speak up!
    Very different from Anglican or other Protestant liturgical cultures. Those folks bring much more engagement. I imagine this is reflected in Ordinariate culture.

    As for those recordings, the singers sound like well trained choirs. The organ isn’t doing much to influence the musicality or phrasing, something I would expect to need to do in Catholic Churches around these parts.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jackson is right that Catholics can sing. The question to my mind is when/how to teach the Ordinaries. Here are some options:

    1) Haranguing in the congregation with a cantor and microphone during Mass.
    2) 20 minute practice with congregation before any given Mass.
    3) "Come learn the new music" sessions on Saturdays.
    4) Choir (and clerics) singing them well.

    In the first two choices, the providing of musical scores to the congregation is optional, even discouraged.

    In the second two, providing the musical scores seems helpful.

    Are there other ways to do this?

  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    5/ Teach the children (if you have a parochial school)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
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