When everything is dreadful
  • IdeK
    Posts: 87
    I come to ask for some advice. I have moved from my former parish to another town in eastern France. As it happens, in my new parish, the music is... well, awful.

    Here's for the bright side : the usual accompaniment is on the organ.
    There are paid organists for nearly each sunday mass, which is quite good news, except there are six of them, for ONE sunday mass each week. That means they alternate and have absolutely no authority on the music. When no one of them can be there, a violonist parishioner steps up and he is quite good. As the organists, he has no authority, even though everyone seems to love him in the parish. I must say I have lots of pity for those people, you'll see why.

    Now for the dark side : there is no real pastor ; the former one was moved to a higher position and not replaced ; mass is usually said by an African priest studying for a high degree in theology at the nearby University, and the authority is supposedly in the hands of the pastor of the parish just southern ours.

    And then, the cantors. Well, there is a handful of them : a lady who can't sing in tune and changes the rythm when it doesn't suit her ; another one who shouts in the mic so I had to put my hands on my ears on a sunday because it actually hurt ; another one who sings about right but obviously doesn't know a thing about the liturgy and routinely picks something else in the place of the Gloria (we had a paraphrase of Psalm 8 one day) or of the Sanctus ; then the only man in the whole sings correctly and knows what is a Gloria, but is stuck in Akepsimas music and such (such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po-rbzIu23I - that is one of the Kyriale's in use in the parish).

    And me. I was so appalled on the other day that I volunteered to cantor. I am to start in January. I think cantoring once in a while won't change much (except the cantor will sing a real Gloria in tune on that day), but I don't know what else to do.

    Should I start a choir ? But I'm trained as an amateur singer and a cantor, I've never learned to be a choirmaster. Is it something you can learn "on the job" ?
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    I'd just be an anonymous parishioner for the first year, without criticizing or suggesting anything. And then see where you might want to get involved. I say this as someone who has gotten over-involved too quickly a few times. Long-term relationships need to be cultivated with respect and gentleness.
    Thanked by 3a_f_hawkins Elmar Cantus67
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    IdeK - from your description I gather that the cantor has considerable authority. I would confine myself to that task for at least a year, unless of course you are asked to take more responsibilty. Or asked for help by any of the other cantors.
    Is the music any better in the parish where the pastor is based?
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • IdeK
    Posts: 87
    Thank you for your kind advice ! Yes, here in France usually the cantor has a huge authority, or the group of the cantors as a whole when they decide collegially about the music. Here it's not very collegial, so much authority for the cantor.

    I don't really know how it is in the parish where the pastor is based (I only went there for a burial). I think I'm going to do some "parish tourism" next sunday to have a look.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    A quick search on this forum will see what music I am programming. But I trained as an Organic Chemist, and now work as a science teacher. I have no music qualifications...

    I don't think anyone is ever happy with poor music or even music sung badly. Apart from a small but sometime vocal group that want music that reminds them of their youth back in the 1960's and 1970's, most people are open to improvement.

    See what you can do, you can work slowly, you can find out what people expect what they will enjoy, and especially we need to teach people about Sacred music. Our Musical programme has taken 20 years to build (We are all volunteers).
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I've never heard of Akepsimas music before, so thanks to IdeK for the tip! :-)

    For an example, here's Jo Akepsimas singing "Le père Noël a pris froid", that is, "Santa Claus has caught a cold".

    If this style of song has been influential on Catholic church music in France, it makes me realize that much of the so-called "folk music" that became influential here was also really intended as music for children.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    If this style of song has been influential on Catholic church music in France, it makes me realize that much of the so-called "folk music" that became influential here was also really intended as music for children.


    Which makes it all the more egregious. Children deserve much better. At least there is some comfort in knowing things are bad everywhere.? ? ?
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    When everything is dreadful, give thanks.
    In time we will weather almost anything.
    Meanwhile, we can give thanks for what is, lest it get worse - which it can.
    When all is well, give thanks.
    When all is not well, give thanks for that.
    It is encouraging knowing that we can always give thanks for something.
    This life is a test.
    Thanked by 9Elmar cesarfranck petrus_simplex mmeladirectress GregoryWeber canadash Cantus67 CHGiffen Carol
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I think it is great that you want to help out. Cantoring and waiting is a good idea. As you are doing this, you can meet people and see what they think. If you have a group of women who want to join, you can start a schola with them. If you have a group of men, the same. If you have a nice mix, you can begin a simple choir.

    I think the thing is to think long term. It doesn't need to be done now, or even for next Christmas. Build slowly. Learn what you need to learn well. Ask for lots of advice. Keep things simple but beautiful.

    Good luck and Thank you!
    Thanked by 1GregoryWeber
  • Cantus67Cantus67
    Posts: 208
    Charity, charity covers a multitude of sins (both literal and aural) move slowly, respect as much as possible. If the spirit and opportunity to start a choir is there then do so, praying, begging God for the resources to make it work. Be willing to capitulate, on occasion I have friends and other music directors come over to our church. I'll ask them to direct and do so to let them know that I respect their talent and work. Take the music seriously, don't take yourself too seriously. In all of it remember that those who are doing things now are doing the best they can, that's a difficult thing sometimes for those of us who've experienced GREAT music making. If the "pastor" allows it see what you can do to perhaps create a small music "board", not so much as a decision making body but a group that can offer good and strong suggestions, all of which should be based on the writings of the church. Tra le Sollecitudini, Musica Sacra, Articles of music from the II'nd Vat council, other good writings and suggestions from music masters of the past. But in all of it remember the charity, it's the most important thing no matter what. It's way too easy to take ones self too seriously, only take the music seriously.
    Thanked by 2Carol GregoryWeber
  • IdeK
    Posts: 87
    Thank you all for your kind advice.

    I am to start cantoring on Epiphany sunday. I have made a program with good hymnody on ancient tunes and a Gouzes kyriale that the people know well.

    I'm going to stick to cantoring at my turn for a while, and see where that leads me, making friends and getting known in the meantime.
    Thanked by 3Carol GregoryWeber CHGiffen
  • GregoryWeber
    Posts: 42
    It's wonderful that you were able to choose the program, in such chaos, IdeK!
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