Placing the ICTUS in "Regina Caeli"
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 489
    Where are the rhythmic groupings in the first line of Regina Caeli" as found in the PBC #28.
    I have found this first line to be all groups of 2 except for the"allelu-".1,2,1,2,(1,2,)1,2,(1,2,)1,2,3(1,2,)
    Yet I also sense the the first syllable "Re-" should be a "2" or an upward movement with "gina cae' as a 123, and
    "latare al-" as 1,2 (1,2) 3,And this would render: 2, 1,2,3, (1,2,) 1,2, (1,2),3, 1,2 (1,2).
    I think both are justified and both will keep a momentum while creating some polyphonic rhythms. But the textual accent are so very strong that when wedded too closely the ictus a sort of crude beat is created.
    Should the text influence the placement of the ictus? What is your advice, feel free to group the entire antiphon.
  • WGS
    Posts: 297
    Ralph,

    My preference would be the 1,2 1,2 1,2 beginning for Regina caeli. And I emphasize preference. If there is any question, the director must define for the choir what his intentions are. I feel that if I were to make it r-2 1-2-3 1-2, the "cae" syllable would seem to drag and distort the rhythm. That feeling would be accentuated if the choir tended to turn the "cae-li" into a cae-ee-li".

    my interpretation:

    after the first half incise at "quia"

    3 1-2-3 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 1-2

    and after the full incise at "resurrexit"

    r-2 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 1-2
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 489
    wgs : "feel that if I were to make it r-2 1-2-3 1-2, the "cae" syllable would seem to drag and distort the rhythm.That feeling would be accentuated if the choir tended to turn the "cae-li" into a cae-ee-li"."

    I think this is because
    "-CAE" has a stronger textual accent yet -"li " has the dot and the ictus. Due to this textual accent, we may tend over compensate by stressing the "cae' as if it carried an episma. Nevertheless , I think either form of the rythmic groupings should move the melody s briskly through this heavy slyllable. I am so amazed at the energy and clarity that these groupings deliver to the prayerful purpose of these chants. Just a year ago I was unaware of rythmic groupings except where they could be inferred from beamed eigth notes. But I have learned so much from this site ; and from the kindness of strangers.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    WGS, I agree with your rhythm groupings. Would you have ternary rhythm (1,2,3,1,2,) on the first 'Alluluia' or 3,1,2 (1,2,) as in the other "Alleuia"s in your groupings. The latter seems to connect "alleuia' with more continous motion.
  • WGS
    Posts: 297
    Mia,

    definitely 3 1-2 1-2 for the first "alleluia"

    Otherwise, there would be a tendency to extend the "re" of "laetare", break the rhythm at "," and then lengthen the "lu" of "alleluia" as so often is done to non-ictic penultimate syllables
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks, it really helps. Some of our schola was even breathing after the re and at the ",". Good thing I marked with a pencil, need to be corrected.
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