Will anyone have a recording or a music list?
  • Funeral Mass for Cokie Roberts, Saturday September 21
    10 a.m.
    Cathedral of Saint Matthew The Apostle
    1725 Rhode Island Ave NW
    Washington, DC 20036



    May her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercies of God, rest in peace.
  • CGM
    Posts: 700
    The video of the funeral is on YouTube.
  • Though the music choices and level of performance were about what I expected, many regular readers of this website will be disappointed that Amazing Grace, Celtic Alleluia, On Eagles Wings and the like were featured at this Mass. After so many years of advocacy for a different musical understanding, is it too bold to suggest we haven’t made much of a mark on the broader Catholic culture? Is that culture so ossified significant musical change isn’t even a realistic goal?

    I don’t mean to seem flippant or direly pessimistic but am genuinely curious as to whether the Catholic liturgical practice with which I am most comfortable will always be outside the mainstream. The expectations for a musical renewal so enthusiastically embraced earlier in my career now seem quite misguided. Do others share this view or am I suffering from a vitamin deficiency?
  • The expectations for a musical renewal so enthusiastically embraced earlier in my career now seem quite misguided.

    Although things may not move in the time frame or with the visibility we would like, my viewpoint is that there is decidedly a change for the better.

    Sr. Thomas More (Dr. Mary Berry) founded Schola Gregoriana in 1975. One of the members of the group recalled that at the time, there was a real concern among the members that sacred polyphony and Gregorian chant would potentially be exclusively relegated in the not-too-distant future to concert halls and would not be heard in Catholic churches at all.

    Attending high school at St. Mary's, KS in the early '80's, I joined the choir in my senior year - a high functioning group that sang a variety of Masses from the Kyriale, a number of "major" polyphonic works - Palestrina, Esquivel, Handl, Victoria, etc.. Propers were handled by a small schola - often full-tone, occasionally psalm-toned. We had Tenebrae, occasional vespers.

    I had always been a server more than a singer - but I fully expected to find some equivalent choral structure in other locations after I graduated and moved on. Although I sang at different chapels all over the country (I did a lot of traveling for a variety of reasons), most TLM choirs were nowhere close to that standard. Rossini propers were challenging for most groups. Part singing was usually either not possible in 4-part, or was poorly executed, and not of the caliber of what I had experienced in high school.

    Every once in a while in my wanderings, there would be a choir that would stand out. Maybe did full Propers. Maybe did some of the "major" polyphony... but it was pretty rare in my experience. For myself, it was nearly 30 years after St. Mary's before I found a group capable of singing at that level.

    (Don't worry, although I appear to be rambling, I DO have a point).

    However, in the last 10 years I have seen an incredible resurgence. More and more choirs that not only do chant, but do it respectably well. More online-resources. More workshops. More symposiums. More intensives. More camps. Are there parishes where the chant is poorly done? Where Rossini is the norm? Where part music is... challenging (for the auditor as well as the choir)? Yes. BUT, more and more frequently I'm hearing and seeing choirs that are much more capable, much more developed, that are making the most of profound music.

    My spectrum is largely limited to the EF - and I've seen resurgence primarily within that universe. But I also see, on a more limited scale (but perhaps that is simply my limited perspective), instances where OF music programs are really setting the bar high. Often, it may be a mixed bag - but there ARE parishes where the music program is superlative (both caliber and performance) regardless of the form of the Mass.

    If we look at what we have now - when in 1975, the thought was that this type of music might be forever removed from our churches - I think we can say good things ARE happening. I know that is certainly true in my own personal experience as well over the past nearly 40 years.

    I would say my 2 cents... but I've rambled long enough that it is probably 4 cents.
  • Randolph,

    A ship this big takes a long time to show course corrections, but small boats (tugs, life boats and reconnaissance parties) make more ground more quickly.

    There is definite progress, even if it's not evenly spread, and most places are in the grip of some kind of vampire.
    Thanked by 1Randolph Nichols
  • Incardination,

    Good to hear the opinions of a fellow native Jayhawker (I grew up on the bottom side of the state in Baxter Springs). While I agree with your points, keep in mind I am focusing on the “mainstream” Catholic music culture as showcased in the funeral Mass for Cokie Roberts. While I concede there are indeed more examples today that counter my pessimism, those music programs would never be identified as typical.

    Furthermore, for every success story there too often seems to be a failure. (We read of such tragedies frequently on the pages of MusicaSacra.) I’ve had the privilege to be part of Catholic parishes that exemplified high music ideals but have also witnessed their disintegration. At St. Brigid’s in Lexington, MA, for example, I expanded the choral repertory, introduced chant and did my best to develop community pride in the sounds of the loft Hook & Hastings organ pipework. After seven years I left for a much better paying position (the biggest mistake of my professional career) and within three weeks the music program was completely dismantled by my successor. Today at St. Brigid’s, yards away from the iconic Battle Green, a praise band reigns.

    There is another angle to consider: can music advocacy ever take centerstage in an era when the faith is dying of attrition. Surely survival of basic theological convictions take precedence. Granted, I may take the-sky-is-falling doomsayers like Rod Dreher too seriously, but living as I do in the least religious state in the country (Maine) it is hard to ignore the death of a once healthy Catholic identity and culture.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,085
    Mass of Creation? Churches still use that setting? Blech. It's as if Amazing Grace, On Eagle's Wings and the Schubert Ave Maria are the de facto propers for Catholic funerals in the United States.
  • (1) The lived musical context of a parish community, generally, suffers radical redesign badly. A notable non-musical transition period (e.g. a religious order takes over, or the church, about to be closed, is saved by intervention) can occasion successful monumental reform. People are primed for change, and the membership is often shifting. Otherwise, no.

    People commit (non-itinerant types) to these communities for life. Memories are deep, attachments are strong. Particular songs were sung at grandmother and mother's funerals (and, at this point, weddings). In certain ways. By certain people. This is the process whereby liturgy first stabilizes, btw, not Roman fiat.

    And yes, the Council and liturgical changes were precisely such a transition period. That's why, in my opinion, it stuck.

    The 2011 Missal wasn't, as the only people who felt it necessary, or even good, were already on board the music train. So unnecessary additional change was resented. Hence, the Revised Masses and their enduring popularity. Just like communities that were made, like Old St Mary in Cincinnati, to retire the TLM that they had kept up for years after 1970. They didn't go full Normie -- they did what they were required to do, and kept the externals as much as possible. OF Solemn High Latin Mass kind of idea. Now, the original reason for this was attachment to the TLM, but 35 years later, when the TLM is free, they resist going back, as they are attached to this form now. That's how this stuff goes down.

    For an analogy, a gut-check of what this means for the PiP, try imagining turning your local TLM parish on to guitar masses. The feelings are only slightly less intense going the other way. That isn't, musically, part of their community identity, or even on the radar. You have to put it on the radar first.

    (2) If the individual parish is difficult to change, a fortiori on the general level.

    (3) This is not new. Read back issues of Caecilia, or Hardy's "Under the Greenwood Tree" to remember. Hard truth: "Vital Spark" was a 19th-Century Anglican "Eagle's Wings." And Eagle's Wings is better music and text, in liturgical terms.

    (4) People who were not driven out by the change of music to the present style, can at least tolerate it. Some even like it. In my experience, in average parishes, that "some"" is "many," or "most."

    Which brings me to (5), my principium primum actionis: Respect people's devotion on a practical level, and enrich it with the broader tradition. For the newer stuff, inform your performance practice with the tradition. Sing chorally, modestly. Foster as much beauty as possible, no matter what is sung.

    If you have to sing sacro-pop, do it in such a way that a piece of chant inserted afterwards would feel as natural as possible. Pick sacro-pop, if you must, that harmonizes musically and textually with the chant. It can be a powerful experience for those who love the former, and are learning to love the latter.

    I brought an SSPX sympathizer, EF-exclusivist, used to an outstanding choir, to English, OF Mass at my last parish, where I was not permitted to let go of a great deal of repertoire. The music not only didn't offend him, but moved him. That was just choosing what I could, and doing all of it seriously and with dignity -- because it is liturgy.

    And, in that job, at least a lot of people heard and loved chant, polyphony, organ rep, etc, that would have left in a huff, had a negative, condemnatory approach been taken, in my opinion.

    Tl;dr: (imho) Success =/= removing the less than ideal, but rather inculcating love of the more ideal. Toleration is a powerful tool to do that.
  • Are there parishes where the chant is poorly done? Where Rossini is the norm? Where part music is... challenging (for the auditor as well as the choir)?
    There were plenty of those before VII (at least in England). There was a good reason for the bishops to put in SC117 a request for official simpler chants, along with completing critical editions of the other chants
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • There were plenty of those before VII ...

    True - I'm not suggesting that on the TLM side that this was an outcome of V2. And I think Rossini Propers served (serves?) a purpose. Parishes that would never have otherwise experienced an elevated form of Mass were able to sing the Missa Cantata. It was ubiquitous because it was easier - it didn't require understanding of all the different things that apply to chant notation any more than it didn't require ministers and understanding of the additional rubrics regarding celebration (as opposed to the Solemn High Mass, for example).
  • There is another angle to consider: can music advocacy ever take centerstage in an era when the faith is dying of attrition.

    I think music is very much part of Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. It isn't advocacy of good music simply as a matter of taste or preference - it is advocacy of music that best articulates who we are as Catholics. In that sense we attempt to shift the orandi to best match the credendi - or what the credendi SHOULD be.
  • Let us consider the sacraments of priestly prayers, which having been handed down by the apostles are celebrated uniformly throughout the whole world and in every Catholic Church so that the law of praying might establish the law of believing [ut legem credendi lex statuat supplicandi]
    Music that helps the texts to penetrate our inattentive minds. (presupposing that the texts are comprehensible to us)
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • Nihil,

    While I see some validity in the description you provide, I am definitely not a Nihilist. I don't believe sinners are beyond radical repentance.
  • I don't believe sinners are beyond radical repentance.


    Sinners? Am I missing something here?
  • [Less obscure]:

    Radical change is what you're describing when you say (in effect) the old music will linger in the face of attempts to change. I replied to that by saying that sinners are not beyond radical repentance, and so we should not expect to leave those in musical mire in that mire, any more than God wants us to wallow in sin.
  • Not quite -- I'm saying that retention of things longer than you might like, while building a new culture in parallel, can be very effective in un-wallowing parish programs, which naturally resist change, and react violently to sudden change.

    This doesn't mean to deny that a clean, sudden, full break is sometimes necessary. But it should be avoided, in my opinion, as a rule, not incited.
  • Much pain could have been avoided if both musician and father-committee had flown their true colours for all to see before the musician had been appointed. Not showing them or being wishy-washy about them in hopes of 'getting the job' (or of 'just getting a DoM') is to be on a road to disappointment, headache, outright pain, emotional distress, and possible disaster.

    Also, I don't think that there is one infallible way to negotiate a change of musical culture in a given parish. Some parishes actually want definitive change and choose a choirmaster who will bring it about. Others don't want change of musical culture and behave accordingly. Others are quite open to an 'eclectic' mixture of genres. Some don't mind going rather (more or less) quickly, Others will dig in their heels if not rebel. Others will rise up in arms. Others will greet you with open arms.

    Fly your true colours from the start and you are far less apt sooner or later to get a hurtful divorce.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen