Incense during the Kyrie in the NO??
  • ACalabrese
    Posts: 8
    Dear Collective Wisdom,
    The GIRM basically says that during the Entrance Chant, the Priest kisses the altar and then incenses it, then after that makes the Sign of the Cross with everyone, etc... (GIRM 123, 124), then the Penitential Act follows (125). So would it be impossible in the NO Mass to move the incensing to the singing of the Kyrie? Is that how it is done in the EF? We usually sing a hymn and short Introit (SEP), and after the Confiteor we often sing a polyphonic Kyrie, so he's just standing there listening. Thank you for your comments.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I love your address... Collective Wisdom

    As per moving things around in the NO... lol

    Sincerely,

    One of the Collective

    “We are Borg”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dWBmaKk32fE
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    A Calabrese,

    [Obvious comment]

    Some actions accompany others. We genuflect, for example, at the Et incarnatuse est. We genuflect at the Et Verbum Caro factum est.

    On the other hand, some actions merely take place at the same time as others, but aren't necessarily connected to each other. (7th graders take Math while 8th graders take English in the same building at the same time, but there's no necessary connection.)

    The incensing of the altar is part of the preparatory rite, not part of the penitential rite, so, my obvious comment notwithstanding, there's no reason for them to be connected.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I stand to be corrected, but it seems to me (relevant to the NO) that the censing of the altar happens immediately the priest mounts the altar. This is the first ritual act of the mass, during the introit. If, as is too often the case, there is a hymn but no introit, it seems to me that, still, the censing should take place during the hymn. If, as at Walsingham, there is a processional hymn followed by the introit, the censing takes place during the introit and after the hymn.
    Kyrie is not the occasion for censing the altar. It is the remnant of what anciently was a litany, and should be thought of as such. As such, the priest is not standing there doing nothing, but is praying Kyrie eleison (or 'Lord, have mercy upon us') with everyone else - or, like everyone else, is praying it inwardly as the choir sing it.
    Thanked by 4Salieri toddevoss CharlesW SarahJ
  • ACalabrese
    Posts: 8
    Got it. Thank you.
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 162
    What M. Jackson Osborn said.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Just to clarify, in the EF the censing of the Altar takes place either during the singing of the Introit or Kyrie.

    Actions of the Priest / Action of the choir
    Prayers at foot of Altar / Introit
    Censing / Introit, Kyrie
    Read Introit / Introit, Kyrie
    Read Kyrie / Introit, Kyrie

    So depending on the length of the Introit (or how many verses up to three we sing) and the time the priest and server take to say the prayers at the foot of the altar, the choir could start singing the kyrie, during the prayers at the foot of the altar, or at late as the censing... Usually we are singing the Kyrie during the censing
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 392
    In the EF it happens sometimes while the choir sings the Kyrie, but then the priest recites the Kyrie himself almost silently after the incensing, so it does still technically happen before the Kyrie.
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