I generally oppose editing hymns, mostly because poetry, theology and beauty are usually what are removed. I'm not sure that I would use a hymn which spoke of "charms" in Our Savior's arms.

Yes, there is at least one recent example that shows the omission of the refrain in which that is the concluding phrase:

https://hymnary.org/hymn/HTLG2017/page/58

Early versions of the hymn lacked any refrain; it seems to have been added circa 1899. That said, musically, the stump of the hymn that remains is missing the satisfying* contrast (musical and spiritual) that the refrain was designed to provide. One could fiddle with the phrase to be something about being safe or secure from harms, but I am not sure it would be worth the effort.

* E.g., in the Evangelical altar call context. Or at a Catholic penance service during individual confessions.

My link was only to the specific instance I was referring to. AFH's was to the overall page in Hymnary for that hymn: if you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see a compendium embedded with examples, from most recent (left) permitted to be included to most ancient (scroll right), typically in public domain. There are a lot of examples for that hymn. When you click on an example, you can often click on the next page of the hymnal that is being illustrated.

Don,

I agree that "charms" are graces. I wondered if it was prudent to change it in our current culture to reflect that understanding and avoid confusion. Come Thou Font comes to mind when I think of good text changes to old hymn: "here I raise mine Ebenezer. . . " Changes made to hymns to fit a collective agenda I do not appreciate.

Leave hymns alone, do not edit, change or alter them. Either use them as is, or not at all. As a composer AND poet myself, I would be furious if someone did that to one of my hymns. Personally, this hymn has special and deep meaning to me. If this hymn and tune does fit your theology and doctrines, leave it alone and find something else or compose a new one. And YES, charms refer to "Graces" from the Lord. As a Kentucky boy with deep family roots from the Appalachians, its my understanding this is its meaning. And for those that have never been in a service where shape note singing or other forms of sacred Appalachian mountain singing occurred, I can assure you that these hymns and melodies can be extraordinarily powerful with extreme influence on one's mind, heart and soul.

"Charms" within the culture where this comes from, also refers to the Holy Spirits' "ecstatic" influence. That said, I agree to the references to the Prodigal Son of this text.

Ken,

So, what do you think of Stephen Foster's My Old Kentucky Home, in its "revised" version?

We had to change the wording to "My Shepherd Will Supply My Need," on orders of the chancery. We were told to no longer use the phrase, "Jehovah is his name." So we inserted "most holy is his name" and continued to sing this familiar American hymn/anthem. Same for Yahweh.

Don9of11 thinks we “need” to “use the poet’s language” but also that it is “necessary” not to use the poet’s language in Daily, daily because, he says, it is “incorrect” (on the basis that “worship” univocally denotes latria).

“Incorrect” is a bold assessment. Can it be read other than as implying that Henry Bittleston had a much mistaken Mariology or that he was a singularly inapt wordsmith? What does it suggest about the other Oratory fathers – including Card. Neman – and the censors of any number of hymnals who allowed the error to slip by?

A more modest claim might have been to suggest that the lyric could be emended to avoid the potential for misunderstanding. However, “honour” – which Don9of11 regards as a “most acceptable” substitute – strikes me as rather anaemic in a hymn which Fr Rutler describes as “marvellously raucous”.

Bittleston is translating Omni die’s “colo” which can refer to latria or dulia. So can worship. Otherwise, I would not envy Don9of11 the task of interrupting happy couples to explain that the bodily worship mentioned in their wedding vows is actually idolatrous!

JGH,

I happen to look through my copy of Fr. Rutler's book "The Stories of Hymns" which by the way is an excellent book and is complimented even more so with the DVD's of his program about these hymns which aired on EWTN. The text of the hymn printed in his book uses the phrase "all her feasts, her actions honor" and you're quite correct he does say the hymn is "a marvelously raucous hymn to our Lady" he also later writes "The monks of Cluny would have been innocently delighted with the updated version, which is especially suitable for processions." I have also seen in the Choral Companion by WLP, the word "cherish" used "all her feasts, her actions cherish".

There is another hymn that can be found in the May Blossom's hymnal by the SND entitled "Our Lady of the Sacred Heart". My friend Oldhymns pointed it out to me because it uses the word "charms" and "woo'd". "Sweet Lady of the Sacred Heart, thy peerless virgin CHARMS, woo'd Jesus from His heav'nly throne, To rest within thine arms" If we were to sing this hymn today you would need to explain not only "Charms" but "woo'd" as well.

I feel that when hymns are used in the Mass they need to be looked at through the lens of our Catholic teachings, that is why I expressed that "honor" was a suitable and effective substitute for that particular hymn.

Regarding "bodily worship", I am unfamiliar with this and have never encountered it in any Catholic wedding service.

Well it's in (back in) a Catholic rite now : https://d2wldr9tsuuj1b.cloudfront.net/3059/documents/resources/AC_Marriage_Rite.pdf
page 10
He sprinkles the ring[s] with holy water. And the Priest or Deacon, taking the ring, shall give it to the man, to put it upon the fourth finger of the woman's left hand. And the man, holding the ring there, and taught by the Priest or Deacon, shall say: With this ring I thee wed; with my body I thee worship; and all my worldly goods with thee I share: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Likewise, the woman may receive the ring for the bridegroom and shall put it on her husband’s ringfinger, saying: With this ring I thee wed; with my body I thee worship; and all my worldly goods with thee I share: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

In the 1990s ICEL informally suggested to the Vatican authorities that they could incorporate more of the Sarum Marriage elements in the Rite, such as the Blessing of the Nuptial Bed. However the suggestion was not well received.

[I edited the link to correct a typo.--admin]

CG-Z. . . Concerning Foster's song, "My Old Kentucky Home," that obviously doesn't belong in the Church. I am not here to debate the political correct of poets. I am just stating that in my opinion, works of art, regardless of the medium, should not be altered. Arrangements and other works built on an original are a different matter. That particular song / poem, reflects a time and culture that is vastly different from today. As an institution and peoples hopefully becomes more enlightened and educated, I would hope that the uses of some art works become re-evaluated as to usage.

Perhaps Kentucky should do so. But that's not my call. Likewise, I would hope and pray that the Church would become more educated about many songs and art works currently in use today and then dropped from usage! (i.e. modernist ego centric so called religious muzak unworthy for the worship of GOD). Likewise, perhaps Foster's song should now be shelved to the realms of history.

To paraphrase an infinitely more wise person than myself, "give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and unto GOD, that which belongs to GOD." I hope like Jesus, I haven't fallen into your trap!

Chris - were you born in Louisville or a KY native? I was and know it extremely well. I was even once the music director at THE Dominican church who advertises in another thread and was baptized at that same church along with having several family members who attended there decades before me. I have many many memories of StLB, St Martin, the Cathedrals, of Bardstown St Joseph and the Mother House of the Sisters of Charity too. My foot prints are all over that city and state - lol. I knew Arch. Bp Kelly and other clergy there well.