Latin Mass question
  • puretonesoprano
    Posts: 59
    Hello!

    I should know this, but I'm slightly confused again.

    Do we sing Gloria and Credo in the Latin Mass at 4pm on a random Saturday? It's actually Sept 28, 2019.

    Because it's at 4pm, I believe it will be a Vigil for the Sunday Mass, which is the Dedication of St. Michael, the Archangel... or, should be for the St. of the day, who is St. Wenceslaus, Duke and Martyr?

    Thank you for your help!

    Rebekah
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Puretonesoprano,

    There's no such thing as a "Vigil for the Sunday Mass" in the EF, at least not in the same way that there is for the OF.

    One never sings Gloria and Credo on random Saturdays. I'll double check later, but I don't think there's a Vigil for St. Michael the Archangel, so there wouldn't be a Gloria or a Credo at a Vigil for St. Michael.

    I'll write again, later this evening.
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 402
    Saturday evening anticipatory Masses in the EF aren’t really supposed to be a thing. They’re technically possible now, but aren’t really done.

    That being said, Sunday starts with First Vespers, which occurs on Saturday afternoon. If the Sunday Feast Day is the Dedication of St. Michael the Archangel, then that’s what Mass would be celebrated, generally speaking. If that’s the Mass that’s being said, then yes, you sing the Credo and the Gloria.
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 402
    There seems to be some confusion with the use of “Vigil”. There is no vigil for the Feast of St. Michael the Archangel in the way that there’s a vigil for Pentecost, St. Lawrence, etc. Often in the OF the Saturday evening anticipatory Mass for Sunday is referred to as the vigil Mass. I believe this is what the OP meant.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    As others have indicated, an EF Mass offered on Saturday evening should follow the liturgical norms of the Saturday, even though attending it fulfills the canonical Sunday obligation.
    Thanked by 4rich_enough tomjaw veromary puretonesoprano
  • CharlesSA
    Posts: 163
    Regardless of what time the Mass is, it would be the Mass of Saturday - which in this case, would be the Mass of St. Wenceslaus. Which would mean there is a Gloria but no Credo.

    As far as I know - someone may/will correct me if I am wrong - in this case there is not a provision the traditional Missal to celebrate the Mass of September 29 on September 28, even if 1st Vespers of St. Michael has already been said, unless the rules for External Solemnities applies here, which I do not think it would.

    But as Chonak said, it will still fulfill the Sunday obligation.

    I am assuming the priest celebrating this Mass knows the norms for this...
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    The rules about the Sunday obligation apply to the individual Catholic. You can fulfill it by attending any Catholic Mass, Roman, Ambrosian, Maronite, whatever, on Sunday or Saturday 'evening'. It doesn't matter what the celebration is, could be somebody's funeral if the liturgical rules of the Rite permit that.
    The rather very confused, and totally confusing, rules about OF Vigils don't apply to the EF. In our diocese the OF Ordo simply ignores the possibility of a vigil Mass if there is an obligation the following day (Easter and Christmas excepted).
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 402
    Ask the priest what Mass he plans on saying. Then ask if there’s a Creed and Gloria. At the end of the day, regardless of what the rubrics say, you have to do what the priest does during Mass. You can’t leave Father hanging if he intones the Gloria and Creed.
    Thanked by 7StimsonInRehab chonak WGS mmeladirectress Carol Elmar puretonesoprano
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