How do you sing/play “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”?
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 21
    Every time I hear this at any Catholic church in Anytown, USA, I always hear the eighth notes added during the repeat. I never hear it without those eighth notes.

    Recently, I heard it sung without the repeat at the end, and I actually think it sounds better than with the repeat!
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,686
    I would say it's typical in the Northeast USA for the PIPs to include the eighth notes regardless of whatever resource is offered to them and regardless of what the choir or organist do. As for a repeat, if the choir and organ drop it and out, there might be sad crash, as it were.
    Thanked by 2Carol Don9of11
  • Cantus67Cantus67
    Posts: 183
    I'd love to see any additional editions of the piece, with or without. The 1/8th notes are almost always sung but I've NOT seen them in print in other than my edition which was made partially off a rendition I heard online years ago.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4L7cTmcIRVEd0MzQk4yMkJsRmc/view?usp=sharing

    I was "forced" to make a simple edition some years ago. No 1/8th notes.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4L7cTmcIRVET3hwUDlPZEtkOWc/view?usp=sharing


    R
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 292
    The version in the (Episcopal) Hymnal 1982, hymn 366, is without the eighth-note yodels and without the (IMHO) pointless repeat. :) This helps the people sing this Te Deum with less tedium, as it's seven stanzas long.
    Thanked by 2MarkS cesarfranck
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,686
    It goes back a long enough way, most of the life of the hymn in English (which life started in 1858 in Dublin).

    Example from 1871: https://hymnary.org/hymn/CYHB1871/page/134
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 302
    I have never heard the eighth notes (or quavers as we would say) in the UK.
    There is a similar hymn with 4-line stanzas, Holy Father, God of might, sung to the same tune but without the repeat.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 1,296
    I have never heard these quavers, nor a repeat, in the UK either, and the tune is quite familiar. Liam's example was published in New York.
  • WGS
    Posts: 222
    I recall that my first choir director, Robert W. Krick (r.i.p.) would never schedule the familiar "Holy, God, We Praise Thy Name". He said that "The congregation would put in a bunch of extra notes." This was in the late 1950s in Wilmington, Delaware. Instead, we always sang the "Holy God" setting by C. Alexander Peloquin for TTBB. In fact, to this day, that is the tune that comes to my mind for that text.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 195
    I learned to sing this hymn using the St. Basil Hymnal, Revised edition 1918. Personally I like the eighth notes in the refrain as opposed to say the Gather hymnal #615, where they removed them. There's no reason to remove them after all any good choir or intelligent congregation ought to be able to sing them. I also like the harmony from St. Basil's hymnal. We recently switched to the Ignatius Pew Missal which happily they added the eighth notes back in, although I don't care much for the harmony they use.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW KARU27
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 6,652
    The repeat and the eighth notes (quavers) appear in neither the 1940 nor the 1982. Whenever I hear them I do not feel 'at home'. They are strange indeed (bizarre, even), but seem to be ubiquitous in the Catholic world.
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,686
    Whereas, for many American Catholics, not hearing them would make them feel not "at home", as it were. The Episcopalian hymnals of either generation were crafted with American Episcopalians, not American Catholics, in mind....
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,063
    Thank you Liam. Absolutely I hear them and I play them.
    Thanked by 1KARU27
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,885
    I play them. My congregation learned this hymn from an older hymnal years before I arrived. They do what they have always done, so I have thrown in the towel and play it the way they sing it.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 618
    My choir does not sing them, but the congregation will no matter what.
    Thanked by 1Cantus67
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,685
    They are strange indeed, but seem to be ubiquitous in the Catholic world.


    Yup. Once a day keeps the British away!!

    Seriously---here in the Upper Midwest Germanic/Pole area, the eighth-note are in. And it's about MM138, please!
    Thanked by 2PolskaPiano KARU27
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 161
    Always with the "hiccups" no matter how it appears in the hymnal. Never fight a battle that you cannot win. The old Saint Basil Hymnal did it that way and it is the DNR of North American Catholics. Theordore Marier put them in in his colorful harmonization in HSPC.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,487
    I try only to program this for benediction and not for mass, for the reason of dealing with soloists on the eighth notes. I tend to take a "quod scripsit, scripsit" approach with this hymn, as well as with other music my group performs. (Granted I don't know how much longer that group will keep afloat but that's another story.) A choir needs to pay attention to the little things, not just add them in because of a "little t tradition" ("But that's how we've ALLLLLWAYS done it!!!") Being able to read and follow music is a much more essential skill than recitation of bad habits they've picked up over the years - although I am the last person to diss rote memorization done properly.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 269
    Never heard the quavers or a repeat (refrain??) in Australasia or Ireland/UK. Must be another one of those strange American things.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 368
    We don't, but every other church I've been to seems to use them
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,089
    While looking at tunes for "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" I came across the following. What struck me was not the tune for this hymn but the hymn following and its tune HURSLEY (L.M.):

    https://hymnary.org/hymn/BHUC1883/page/124


  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,089
    One other thing, some time after composing my hymn tune RASMUS (originally for the text "Let Thy Blood in Mercy Poured") and, after checking its metre (78.78.77) against other texts several years ago, I discovered that its metre is the same as that of "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" ... and so here is that text, set to RASMUS. Enjoy!

  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,490
    Around here the fight is between eighths and eighth triplets. :-) And yes, repeat.
    We sing it exactly as Jeff O has it in the Campion Missal, which is what we use. I'm trying to foster attitudes of musical literacy here, so Stimson's "quod scripsit, scripsit" struck a chord with me.
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,686
    "quod scripsit, scripsit"

    I find that an questionable approach for congregational singing. If the PIPs own something well, organ and choir ought to follow them in the regard.
  • Liam,

    Define "own ....well".
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,519
    Having recently seen the original On Eagles Wings hymn text and music, I propose that CHGifffen consider writing a tune for it as well.
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 302
    Hursley is what we sing for Holy Father God of might. (This is Scotland). I hadn't realised it was a Baptist hymn!! it's in our hymnbook, Celebration for EveryoneThe words Father of heaven whose love profound is usually sung to Song 5 by Orlando Gibbons, which can be found set to those words in the English Hymnal. A rather dismal tune, I have to say.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • davido
    Posts: 165
    Coming from a Protestant background, the repeat and eighths were new to me, but I love them. “Local usage” has always been part of Catholic tradition, and you really can’t suppress it.

    In my diocese, all parishes learned a common mass setting when the new Missal translation came out. However, lots of DMs changed something about it that they didn’t like and taught it to their congregations wrong! So every parish has their own variant version of the same mass setting!
    Thanked by 1KARU27
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 143
    Lutherans, in addition to Episcopalians, omit the repeat and the 8th notes.

    Having served both those denominations for years before my first Catholic job, I always have to watch out here, where folks sing both 8ths and repeat. This past Corpus Christi at Vespers/Benediction, the tenth liturgy of my weekend, after walking and singing a mile under a blazing sun in cassock/surplice, I left the repeat off the first verse and was sharply hissed at by the Schola. The remaining verses were corrected, but I was very ashamed.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 195
    I was looking through several of my old Catholic Hymnals and found this arrangement of Holy God, We Praise Thy Name from the Sodalist's Hymnal 4th Edition 1887. It's a different melody then we are used to w/ 6 verses. If you're squeamish about eight notes you better not look!
  • [duplicate post removed]
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 89
    1. Charles H. Giffen: I have already used several of your hymn descants and other music. On Rasmus and Webbe, both of which I would like to use as anthems with my choir in fall, I am trying to find a way to avoid the A's in descants. I know they are being lazy, but only one of my sopranos will make a true effort at singing an A. Would you suggest alternate notes or lowering the harmonization by a whole step?
    2. I was a Southern Baptist until the age of sixteen and remember "Holy God, we praise Thy Name" being sung. Another text which was also frequently used was "Sun of my soul." Both were paired with variants of Hursley. I like the texts. I dislike Hursley -- not strongly, just enough to seldom use it.
    3. When playing "Sun of my soul" to Grosser Gott as in The Hymnal 1982, I play it at an extremely fast tempo. After reading this thread, might use it this Sunday, July 14, 2019.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Cantus67
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 269
    There is a similar hymn with 4-line stanzas, Holy Father, God of might, sung to the same tune but without the repeat.

    I'm curious about this one. Most websites seems to say it was written by the Australian Catholic Richard Connolly - but he was a composer, and I suspect he simply wrote a new tune for it.

    CHE simply says it's anonymous.

    Does anyone have a better source?
  • KARU27
    Posts: 101
    Well, look, here's a whole Chant Cafe entry on this very topic. A Catholic flourish indeed!


    http://www.chantcafe.com/2013/09/a-catholic-flourish/
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 374
    I play this amazing vintage harmonization for at least one verse almost every time.

    Treat yourself.
    494 x 659 - 141K
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,089
    #cesarfranck ... Here is my setting of "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" with an alternate descant that avoids any high A. It is also possible to use the Alto part, transposed up an octave, as an acceptable descant.

    Note, however, since wading into this, I've been revising and will shortly post this hymn set to a triple meter version of RASMUS, which I think is much better.


  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,519
    It's very Catholic to argue about how people should sing the only hymn that Catholics will sing.

    If we all get together and fight over this, maybe we will succeed in stopping them from singing it.

    Einstein's definition of insanity is it?
  • GerardH
    Posts: 66
    I'm curious about this one. Most websites seems to say it was written by the Australian Catholic Richard Connolly - but he was a composer, and I suspect he simply wrote a new tune for it.

    CHE simply says it's anonymous.

    Does anyone have a better source?


    CHE may be referring to a different hymn of the same title. Both music and text of Richard Connolly's hymn are his own. It, and the bulk of his work, is included in most Catholic hymnals in Australia.

    If it helps to differentiate the two hymns, the second line of Connolly's is "throned amid the hosts of light".
  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 89
    CHGiffen -- Many thanks!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ELapisardi
    Posts: 24
    Our pew hymnals do not include the 8th notes, but we have St. Michael hymnals in the choir loft which do. Our priests usually sing the 8th notes with great enthusiasm, confusing some of the PIP. Our choir sings at other parishes 3-5 times a year and I created an arrangement of "Holy God" for one of those trips last year which we subsequently also sang for the Baccalaureate Mass-- with eighth notes, but with the repeat only on the final verse.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,089
    I've posted my triple-meter RASMUS setting of HGWPTN in new thread.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 195
    I came across another version of Holy God in the Catholic Hymnal by Rev. Alfred Young. The Imprimatur was given in 1884 but the hymnal was published by The Catholic Book Exchange in 1909. This version contains an "Amen", 7 verses and mostly all half-notes. The meter is marked 78s 77. I plugged the notes into my Musescore and its nice to listen to.