Poetry and modern hymns
  • Ted
    Posts: 201
    There is an interesting article by Anthony Esolen in Crisis Magazine that looks at the lack of poetic art in recently composed hymns, a trait of today's pop songs.

    https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/the-bad-poetry-of-modern-hymnody

    Many of us as musicians find the music of many modern hymns problematic, but their "lyrics" have not gotten the same studied attention. Esolen examines by example Haugen's "Gather Us In," but such hymns are very popular in the Catholic Novus Ordo world. It seems to me that active participation has always implicitly meant reducing any liturgical songs to the common denominator of easy singing and comprehension, that is to say, through the production of the banal which is apparently what is most sentimentally meaningful to the average individual at worship.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Shine Jesus Shine!
    Thanked by 2Carol CharlesW
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    This sums up very well what I sensed, but had not taken the time to dissect in this manner. So many of the modern hymns have not been crafted musically or lyrically. I have only sung "Gather Us In" when the choice was not mine.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW Don9of11 CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Gather us in on the Edmund Fitzgerald,
    Gather us in on the floor of the sea.
    Slosh us around in Davy Jones locker,
    Plenty good fishes for you and for me - la la la la la la la (interlude)
    Thanked by 5Carol irishtenor CHGiffen 32ContraBombarde petrus_simplex
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    This is a very good article thanks for sharing. Certainly good poetry in modern hymnody has become something of a lost art. In collecting old hymnals and studing the hymns, I can clearly see that not only do the hymns have good melodies and harmonies the authors were themselves gifted poets, they new their scriptures and teaching of the Church.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW oldhymns
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    As CS Lewis said in another context, "I don't see what the time of day has to do with it."

    Sure, there is a lot of dreck being published, but that does not mean that current day hymn writers cannot have had a rigorous education in poetry and the liberal arts, know hymnody and theology, and be capable of writing excellent texts.

    Esolen is a smart man and I think his take down of GUI is accurate, but "modern hymnody" is a sweeping category. He throws out the good and the bad alike.
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  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Probably the best adaptations of older poetry are to be found in the newer Lutheran hymnals. Some of these hymns are more 're-written' than others, but they all are more and less well done, quality poetry. The German Magnificat is one that comes to mind.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CharlesW
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    We hear the “Edmund Fitzgerald” too much. My wife really got a kick out of that, thanks CharlesW
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Poetry is essentially dead in the US. Nobody reads it (let alone memorizes it as they once did), and if anyone writes it, it's generally self-indulgent meandering. Certainly nobody writes metric and rhyming poetry; that's for greeting cards. (And yes, I'm aware of conservative poets, and if you have favorites would love to hear about them...but I'm generalizing about the culture here.)

    The problem is that almost nobody develops any technical skill in poetry, so nobody can write 2 stanzas that scan the same, which is why the missalettes are filled with a forest of tiny notes to represent other stanzas. Say what you will about common meter and Emily Dickinson, but it makes for things that groups of people can sing.
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  • petrus_simplex
    Posts: 72
    I think that this is not just visible in poetry, but in all the arts. As an example, look at those beautiful old holy cards. Who is doing that type of quality work now?

    It is not just within the church, either. We are cleaning out the house of an old aunt. the beautiful old china that was so valued in times past has no value...we can't even get someone to take it for free.
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  • davido
    Posts: 873
    Our society is not literary and I would argue that our largest creative endeavors are geared toward visual arts, particularly motion pictures and advertising. That is an area that had not been much developed before the twentieth century and I think that is where our most significant artistic creativity has shown itself. Unfortunately that has been to the detriment of all the traditional linguistic, musical, and physical arts, which prior centuries and societies had developed to such an extent, that the twentieth century sought to un-develop them for the sake of novelty.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    While all of these generalities are true of the culture as a whole, there are certainly exceptions as Kathy pointed out. They may be few and far between, but there are some good poets, composers, singers, organists, etc. Just not as many as there used to be.

    My wife is teaching a poetry class in a home school co-op and the children are all memorizing poems. We are currently developing a Ward-based music class as well.

    Some parishes are using hymnals like St. Michael, and some people notice the quality of the texts. Unfortunately, most parishes have Breaking Bread, Ritual Song II, or something similar where the poetry is severely lacking, and most people are either unaware or apathetic.
    Thanked by 2Carol CHGiffen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    almost nobody develops any technical skill in poetry, so nobody can write 2 stanzas that scan the same,

    One should be clear about what one means by 'technical skill'.
    Since we're doing "There is joy in the presence of the angels of God" for Laetare, this morning I found myself reading an interview in Lawrence's Sir Arthur Sullivan:
    I really owed much to [Tennyson's] gentleness and patience. I actually had the audacity to lecture him about rhythm! 'Don't mix up your iambics and spondees' I would tell him, and then continue my dissertation in pretty much the same strain! Of course one reason for his good-nature in this matter was that he knew I was not discussing his verse from the point of view of a critic of poetry, but merely in regard to certain musical difficulties. You see he would write a simple song or ballad wherein the music to each verse should be the same, but which really required a separate setting, and would make strong accents in one verse, where in the corresponding place in another verse he would place a weak one, so that the ballad became most difficult for setting to music. It is a glaring fault for most hymn-writers also.
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  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    ...iambics and spondees...
    About setting Tennyson to music, he is said to have said to a musician with whom he was discussing music and poetry that 'you musicians have me say three times what I only said once'.
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    The difference between poetry and lyrics....

    Poetry is inherently musical in some way (indeed, true poetry can be harder to set to music because of that); lyrics need music to come to full life.



    Thanked by 2Carol CHGiffen
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