Ol' Atonal Music
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    (Gimme Some of That) Ol' Atonal Music ... enjoy(?!??)

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    Thanked by 11Earl_Grey Incardination petrus_simplex JonathanKK Carol Schönbergian francis chonak CharlesW StimsonInRehab Heath
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    This was just brilliant.
    Thanked by 4Earl_Grey Incardination Carol CHGiffen
  • Carol
    Posts: 847
    We were looking for a new tune for a folk set and this will do the trick, especially the banjo solo!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Incardination
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    A stands for A**
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    Too funny! I hope our "folk" mass people don't ever hear this. I don't want to encourage them.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Carol
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    I loved that so much! That banjo solo was amazing. How hard was that to remember?

    The singing was everything I would not want my choir to do, matched with everything I learned in grad school. Confusing, brutal, brilliant!
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Carol CharlesW
  • mburrier
    Posts: 25
    Funny.
    I've incorporated atonality into certain liturgies (Good Friday, Pentecost).
    Given the proper context, it really makes sense to even the most staid parishioner.
    As a foundation for a gathering song - not a great idea.
    But as a broadening of the emotional palette - works well.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    I despise what people like Webern did with atonality. Read Schoenberg's writings and you'll see why he felt he had to resort to it: tonality had become so distorted by Wagnerian chromaticism that it no longer held any sway as a method of organizing a piece. Yet he always retained that Wagnerian romantic impulse in all of his music which, if you give it a chance, gives great rewards to the listener. The Violin Concerto, Piano Concerto - both phenomenally Romantic works. Berg was the same way.

    Webern and those who followed him eschewed this in favour of absolute brevity and "objectivity" which makes Schoenberg's work null and void and, indeed, utterly undecipherable. From there we got much of the insufferable music that passes for avant-garde today.

    Schoenberg did indeed compose much tonal music, particularly for choir, which illustrates his quite beautiful approach to the medium (though always within the rules he set for himself to keep tonality relevant). Op. 35 or the Op. 49 folksong arrangements are good examples. As for twelve-tone choral music, the only one that does it for me is Stravinsky's The Dove Descending.

    Honestly nothing wrong with dodecaphony - it's just how you use it. That it was associated with those like Boulez who shunned artistry in favour of "pushing the boundaries" is no fault of its unabashedly Romanticist original architect.
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn Liam Andrew_Malton canadash
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    @Schönbergian : You pretty much expressed my own feelings with yours. And Schoenberg's approach has pretty much inspired my own approach to dodecaphonic composing. Thank you!!
    Thanked by 2Liam Schönbergian
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    Just so you know:   Dodecaphonic music need not be dodecacophony.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn Liam CharlesW Carol
  • MarkS
    Posts: 282
    I find the stunning, crystalline beauty of Webern's later chamber music to be absolutely breathtaking. I don't know about 'objectivity' (did Webern use that term with reference to his own music?), but there is definitely a purity about it.

    I also enjoy some Boulez!
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Richard Mix Jeffrey Quick
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    I love Webern, but Berg is my dude! I like Stravinsky’s rotational arrays as well. Boulez is cool too!
    Thanked by 2MarkS CHGiffen
  • mburrier
    Posts: 25
    Atonality broadens our musical opportunities to express the mysterious not afforded by the major/minor key system.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,464
    Intersting thread....now we could talk about serial sacred music!
    Don't think so?
    Listen to Stravinsky's Requiam Canticles, one of the most moving of sacred works I know. One could also mention Threni, Canticum Sacrum etc etc
    Thanked by 3MarkS mburrier Jeffrey Quick
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,464
    Ohhh not to mention the Mass which was composed for and sung at St. Marks Venice. I dont know if it is realky serial, but certainly quite crunchy.
    Thanked by 2Carol mburrier
  • MarkS
    Posts: 282
    Not serial. But lovely!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    OK... here is a demonstration of how to make a 12 tone row TONAL

    http://www.bizextend.com/12ToneRowFugue.mp4
  • Carol
    Posts: 847
    Is there more of this? My husband melds 12 tone and tonal together in his compositions frequently.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,044
    There are some works by the late Donald Martino (7 Pious Pieces, The White Island, Paradiso Choruses) which divide the row into diatonic hexachords. The 7 Pious Pieces are on early 17thc. English religious poetry and could conceivably be done at Mass.

    As for the song, I particularly appreciated hearing 4:33 played in the style of Floyd Cramer.
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • Banjoyist
    Posts: 7
    Thanks for sharing! I’m going to work that banjo solo into the Gloria tomorrow.
    Thanked by 1Carol
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