Diocese of Marquette Hymnal
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 61
    Per a recent pastoral letter at the diocese website, the hymnal is now available. Oddly, there are no images, excerpts, table of contents, etc that I can find. Has anyone seen it?
  • The cathedral bulletin from November said they had arrived at that point. This is truly odd, an underpublished flagship effort.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 167
    One possible reason for the lack of publicity, information about and samples from the hymnal is that the publishers whose music appears in the hymnal imposed a condition for the inclusion of their copyrighted music that the hymnal is only approved and publishable and usable within the territorial limits of the Diocese of Marquette. It may not lawfully be used outside the diocese's boundaries, maybe not even sold outside the diocese.

    When I inquired in the fall about the hymnal and its contents, I was told that I could not be provided with that information because the hymnal hadn't been released yet. And to my inquiry about whether the hymnal could be used outside the diocese, I was told that it could not for the reason stated above.

    So that diocesan hymnal is not going to be a national competitor with other hymnals due to the copyright and publishing restrictions imposed on it.
  • I'd still love an index and a page scan of a PD text and tune, just for cf. purposes.
  • There is this (just an article, but it gives some indications):

    http://www.upcatholic.org/app.php?RelId=6.9.3.0.5&BookCode=20180504&PageLabel=6&Sgt=11&lang=enu
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen toddevoss
  • Elmar
    Posts: 86
    It may not lawfully be used outside the diocese's boundaries, maybe not even sold outside the diocese
    Seriously? Even selling for private use may be restricted within the US? I mean, this is not Cuba or Russia or Mexico ... and as a next step, are they going to build walls between dioceses?
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,656
    Elmar, my suspicion is that the restrictions GREATLY reduced the cost-of-hymns to the Diocese. So yes, they may restrict, but the Diocese agreed.

    Walls work!!
  • MarkB
    Posts: 167
    I think the point is the hymnal may not be sold for private use. It is only authorized for official use by the Diocese of Marquette: its parishes, schools, and other institutions within the boundaries and under the jurisdiction of the diocese. Essentially the diocese is the publisher of the hymnal solely for its own corporate use.

    That's how OCP and GIA prevented the diocese's hymnal from competing with their own offerings while containing some of their most popular music (I assume, since I haven't seen the contents). If the diocesan hymnal had only the "best" (cough, cough, COUGH) of both OCP's and GIA's "greatest hits" (cough, cough), avoiding their worst junk, but could have been used outside the diocese, it would have had the potential of being a new nationally-used hymnal that would have competed with Worship, Gather, Breaking Bread and the Music Issue. Of course OCP and GIA wanted to avoid that.

    Can such a publishing/copyright arrangement be made in the U.S.? Apparently so.
    Thanked by 2toddevoss Elmar
  • stulte
    Posts: 221
    I think the point is the hymnal may not be sold for private use. It is only authorized for official use by the Diocese of Marquette: its parishes, schools, and other institutions within the boundaries and under the jurisdiction of the diocese. Essentially the diocese is the publisher of the hymnal solely for its own corporate use.

    Where's a young Mozart when you need him?
    Thanked by 1Schönbergian
  • It costs less to license copyrighted works for a limited distribution than for general sale. I've licensed copyrighted works for the exclusive use of parishes in my diocese, and it was a big deal that I never share the work online, or make it available for sale, etc...

    Licenses for general sale also might require that a royalty be paid beyond any fees associated with the initial license itself. While publishers are obliged to issue mechanical licenses, and there's a fixed statutory rate for those licenses, I don't believe they are obliged to license their works to "competitors," or they might choose to charge a higher rate.

    Among larger publishers, it's in their interest to license at a fair rate to others so that they can also receive fair rates for the works of other publishers that they might want to use. I would imagine that someone coming from nowhere and wanting to compete with you might not get favorable rates.
    Thanked by 3toddevoss Elmar BruceL
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,565
    I would imagine that someone coming from nowhere and wanting to compete with you might not get favorable rates.


    Quote of the year.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 727
    .
  • Elmar
    Posts: 86
    I think the point is the hymnal may not be sold for private use. It is only authorized for official use [...] within the boundaries and under the jurisdiction of the diocese. Essentially the diocese is the publisher of the hymnal solely for its own corporate use.

    This makes sense to me, but I wonder if that would work for an entire diocese - at least here in Europe (America may be different) where composers/publishers have no way of restricting public performance of their music as long as you pay the legal fee ... throug a central national organisation. (Sounds like communism, doesn't it?)
    Our dioceses pay a yearly lump sum for performing any music during all public services. Sheet music is of course a different story; so at worst, we have to sing/play from memory.

    If, e.g., the German "Gotteslob" was not for sale to individuals, and I wanted to have one for private use here in the Netherlands? I could simply take one from the pews of a German church (and surely put some money in the collection) ...
  • I question the advantage (or pehaps, the wisdom) of a top-down hymnal. Especially seeing that it'll still have the same banal things that it seemed they were trying to avoid!
    Thanked by 2CharlesW rich_enough
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,721
    Looks like it includes some of the "ol' favorites" from the '70s and '80s - one wonders why put together a special hymnal when it has just about what every other hymnal has already.


    I don't know those folks or their intentions. But 25 years of government service taught me that giving the appearance of change while changing little is a typical trick to throw critics and/or superiors off. True in that diocese? Someone closer will have to comment.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,282
    I don't know those folks or their intentions. But 25 years of government service taught me that giving the appearance of change while changing little is a typical trick to throw critics and/or superiors off. True in that diocese? Someone closer will have to comment.

    It could be part of a Master Plan:

    Stage One: Remove all parishes from their usual Hymnal(s), etc. to the Diocesan Hymnal. Include some not-so-great things to appease the critics.
    Stage Two: 2nd Edition of Diocesan Hymnal, removing much refuse.
    Stage Three: 3rd Edition of Diocesan Hymnal, leaving only SATB-style Hymns.

    But, then again, that might be giving them too much credit. It could be that it is simply the product of a "diverse committee" who tried to include everything to keep everyone happy, and might well have turned out different if +Sample had remained in Marquette to see the project through.

    Who knows?
  • I have a copy of the MQT hymnal here, as it was gifted to our pastor by Bp. Doerfler. It is really quite nicely put together, and in my opinion, a very usable hymnal. There is a token selection of "fluff" (e.g. On Eagle's Wings), and I believe the goal of which was to eliminate outright mutiny among the more progressive faction up there.

    Salieri - While it would be interesting to contemplate a "master plan", I don't think that this is the scenario in Marquette. From what I hear, they simply wanted a hymnal that suited their needs better than what they could currently find in print.
    Thanked by 3MarkB canadash CHGiffen